Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation • Hacker News Board

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#151

Post by gumby » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 12:54 PM UTC

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

> I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism”

I think you jumped the gun. The extended interview with the book author showed that her position is aligned, or even the same as yours (your comment is naturally too brief to tell whether I should have used only “aligned” or “same”).

And indeed it’s Buddhism we’re talking about: a belief system appropriated by other cultures to the point where its origin in India was forgotten for centuries.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#152

Post by nprateem » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #112

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #93

I stopped reading upon seeing at the very stop this “ Silicon Valley is the latest player in a history of Western appropriation of Buddhism” I was very curious about the article. I am wondering if it treats ideas such as “hire fast fire fast” - In a way a concept related to the Buddhist ideas of detachment, or the opposite, “bing your whole self to work” which in a way seems contradictory - you have attachments, cont…

I had a coworker recently tell me I was culturally appropriating the Buddha (I'm a Buddhist) presumably because I am "from the West". Apart from being one of the most offensive things I've ever been told (before anyone jumps on me for this: I can still observe it as offensive regardless of my attachment to the offense) it confirmed for me that whatever is going on in the US with identity politics has jumped the shark…

I wouldn't get offended. They just don't understand what cultural appropriation is by the sound of things. Their problem, not yours.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#153

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:02 PM UTC

throwawayacc2 wrote: post #145

javajosh wrote: post #139

>It feels anti human. Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologist…

> Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologists, but within the public sphere they function only as a combined virtue signal and rhetorical weapon. This is so true. It’s a very beautifully expressed feeling I had trouble articulating before. Thank you for putting it into words like this. It’s also ridicul…

[deleted]

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#154

Post by ffwszgf » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:03 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #109

md_ wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key point is that it becomes "appropriation"--vs cultural mixing or exchange--when the ideas are removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. I'm far from an expert, but it seems like a reasonable argument to advance that the linkage of Buddhist practices with corporate and material advancement--and the removal of spiritual or ethical c…

Spot on. This is a perfect example of appropriation. --- Cultural appropriation is the inappropriate or unacknowledged adoption of an element or elements of one culture or identity by members of another culture or identity. This can be controversial when members of a dominant culture appropriate from minority cultures. According to critics of the practice, cultural appropriation differs from acculturation, assimilati…

This definition is so broad you can basically classify anything you don’t like as “cultural appropriation” depending on how loosely you define “minority”, “majority” and “context”. And in fact that’s what usually ends up happening. Certain forms of blatant “cultural appropriation” are not criticized or even considered as such as long as they conform to the cultural zeitgeist of Western academia.

For example, famous BLM activist Blair Imani is convert to Islam. After her religious conversion she soon after came out as a proud queer woman and upon being questioned she claimed there is no conflict between homosexuality and Islam. She subsequently gave media tours proudly proclaiming to the world her marginal view of Islam. This idea obviously only exists in some marginal Muslim communities in the west and goes against the beliefs of 99% of Muslims in the global south. Is this not blatant cultural appropriation? She took Islam and warped it to fit her western morality much to the anger of its emotional adherents.

Obviously we will never see an article calling her or the Nation of Islam cultural appropriators.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#155

Post by nprateem » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:08 PM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #108

coldtea wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think parent meant that Buddhist's aren't "people of the book" with the muslim meaning of the term. Given the context, he probably meant they aren't "by the book", not strict about their scripture.

Buddhists are not "people of the book" because the Buddha was not a God, and didn't have prophetic access to the teachings of a God. His views on karma and rebirth, for example, were those of the society he sprang from; they were not the result of transcendent insight. He was not some kind of perfect being. Buddha became more God-like as the centuries passed; some Prajnaparamita and later texts describe him as being…

> they were not the result of transcendent insight

That's exactly his selling point, that through deep meditation he had profound insights, regarding impermanance and no-self. But yeah, that was his own realisation, not just some words some god said to him that are supposed to be infallible.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#156

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #139

>It feels anti human. Because it is. The zeitgeist on the left (so, academia) is consumed by personal shame, guilt, and self-loathing, and a great deal of intellectual work has been done to post hoc rationalize these feelings and package them in catchy phrases. Terms like "cultural appropriation" and "privilege" or "systematic racism" or "toxic masculinity", may have some technically useful meanings to anthropologist…

Only narcissists and not very aware people are able to "enjoy the world as it is, in all its messiness."

Because that's what it takes to ignore abusive levels of inequality and systemic threats to the continued survival of the species.

The point is not about what happened in the past, it's about what is still happening now - and how the narratives from the past continue to be used to justify it.

Ignoring this is neither compassionate nor realistic - although it is toxic, pretty much by definition.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#157

Post by nprateem » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:10 PM UTC

shp0ngle wrote: post #8

I’m a Catholic (so I have … my own view on Buddhism) but I lived in SEA for a long time. I want to say, this article is very good. The buddhism as practiced in the west has very little to do with actual practices in the east. But, Buddhism is also very confusing, and it’s hard to say “what is the true buddhism” (mahayana, therevada, vajrayana and zen buddhism in Japan (formally mahayana) are all very different)

> The buddhism as practiced in the west has very little to do with actual practices in the east

Is it possible to make a more sweeping statement?

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#158

Post by tiborsaas » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:11 PM UTC

omarfarooq wrote: post #106

nicky0 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be rather a literalist.

And how should I take those signs of enlightenment then? If not literally then Buddhist scripture is no better than fiction.

All religions are fiction.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#159

Post by mihaic » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:12 PM UTC

nprateem wrote: post #152

emptysongglass wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a coworker recently tell me I was culturally appropriating the Buddha (I'm a Buddhist) presumably because I am "from the West". Apart from being one of the most offensive things I've ever been told (before anyone jumps on me for this: I can still observe it as offensive regardless of my attachment to the offense) it confirmed for me that whatever is going on in the US with identity politics has jumped the shark…

I wouldn't get offended. They just don't understand what cultural appropriation is by the sound of things. Their problem, not yours.

Unfortunately this sort of thinking spreads and it will eventually become everyone's problem unless we address it head on.

Re: Buddhism has found a new institutional home in the West: the corporation

#160

Post by lolinder » Tue, Jul 12, 2022, 1:15 PM UTC

md_ wrote: post #132

cuteboy19 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> removed of their source context and used in a way that is contrary or even disrespectful of their original intent. Ironically all this talk of cultural appropriation is "contrary or even disrespectful of the original intent" of Buddhism. Buddhism never belonged to Magadha, India or Asia, so it is not possible for anybody to appropriate it. It is not anyone's property to begin with

Who said anything about geographic locality?

Each of those places has a very different culture.

Buddhism is not a monolithic entity. It took on vastly different forms in each of the places it landed. Chinese Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism have different scriptures, different approaches to bodhisattvas, different paths to awakening.

Was it disrespectful of the Chinese to take Buddhist teachings when they arrived and transform them to fit their cultural context? Should we go eliminate Buddhism from China because it's not native there and they twisted it to fit their culture?