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Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#151

Post by happytoexplain »

erellsworth wrote: post #51

There's no such thing as a woke corporation. Corporate wokeness is an illusion created by PR departments to maximize market share.

This is an almost-true fallacy levied against all ostensibly benevolent corporate behavior, not just "woke"ness. The theory is that, since profit is supreme, they must engage in benevolence only when it directly or indirectly increases profits (usually via the long-term game of public image).

However, it's a fallacy because those making these decisions are not "corporations", but, in fact, humans, and many of them (optimistically, most of them) are not sociopathic monsters, and therefore like the idea of engaging in benevolence. (You can make an argument that all benevolence is merely atavistic tribe/family-protection behavior on a long enough timeline, and that's another topic, but it is a good analogy for the "true benevolence" vs "false benevolence" theory of corporate behavior). All desires inescapably inform decisions to some extent, no matter how shrewd a person is - therefore, genuine benevolence plays a part in corporate benevolence. It's unrealistically pessimistic to assume all corporate benevolence is purely false, and it seems like that accusation is frequently used to make shallow arguments about social politics.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#152

Post by 31835843 »

JackFr wrote: post #143
31835843 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. “impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. T…

But Americans celebrate tolerance and diversity of ideas, that is unless you actually disagree with us.

Tolerance and diversity are not absolute.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#153

Post by waffleiron »

31835843 wrote: post #85
RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. “impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. T…

> They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for.

But that happens in the US too, if I want to ISIS's propaganda magazine on Amazon is it censorship that I can't find those? If I look for porn on youtube, is it censorship I can't find it?

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#154

Post by krapp »

ziddoap wrote: post #119
Banana699 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, there is such a thing as a woke corporation, and there is such a thing as an anti gay corporation, and they might even be the same corporation at different points in space and\or time. Wokism is a dominant religion (not demographically) in the US, therefore corporations there pray to wokism and observe its rituals. Anti gay islam is a dominant religion in the Middle East, therefore corporations there w…

Genuine question: what is the definition of 'woke' (in the context of how you're using it)? Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". But the vast majority of time I see someone talk about 'wokeness' or 'woke culture', they use the word in a derogatory manner. So I'm guessing the 'woke' mentioned is not "being alert to injustice" (as it is a pretty reasonable stance to be alert to…

The dictionary definition is correct, but most people who use it online use it as a generic slur against leftists and progressives. As you can observe, actual good-faith academic usage of the term is all but nonexistent outside of progressive circles.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#155

Post by JackFr »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

Hypothetically, what if you believe that this closed bedroom behavior is disordered and unhealthy, and that celebrating it, while admittedly well-intentioned, is not helpful, good or the best way to love or respect these people?

Despite that attitude being the norm for much of human history, to advocate such a position now is literally modern heresy, and the end to your career and any public life.

Diversity of opinion is trivial if we agree only to differ on the easy stuff and not the difficult stuff.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#156

Post by mardifoufs »

trasz wrote: post #8

Soon in southern US.

This weird obsession some have to make everything about the usa is just ridiculous especially in this case.

If you think there is any similarity between the UAE/KSA and even the most regressive US states in how they treat LGBT rights, you should really really take a step back and reconsider. Yes, it's funny to call those states the equivalent "American talibans" or whatever, but it doesn't make it true.

It's so weird to see that people unironically repeat the most blatantly hyperbolic, obviously partisan and inflammatory rhetoric to the point of actually where they start believing it themselves.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#157

Post by smileybarry »

waffleiron wrote: post #153
31835843 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. “impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. T…

> They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. But that happens in the US too, if I want to ISIS's propaganda magazine on Amazon is it censorship that I can't find those? If I look for porn on youtube, is it censorship I can't find it?

There's a world of a difference between pride, ISIS, and porn.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#158

Post by mynameisash »

Thorentis wrote: post #84
GekkePrutser wrote: post #73

I just cannot understand why so many people get so angry about what other consenting adults get up to in a closed bedroom. Live and let live.

I also can't understand why we need parades that share what other people do in their bedrooms. This cuts both ways.

I wouldn't describe Pride as "[sharing] what other people do in their bedrooms" but rather sharing that there are people different than the majority/perceived default. It's about bringing awareness to and normalizing acceptance of differences.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#159

Post by colpabar »

JackFr wrote: post #140
djohnston wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling is that if you're going out of your way to promote an ideology/cultural value domestically (Happy Pride Month!, flags everywhere, etc), then yes you need to stick to your guns and not bow to the opposite influence. If you're strictly in the business of making money, then by all means conduct your business but stfu about it.

> if you're going out of your way to promote an ideology/cultural value domestically (Happy Pride Month!, flags everywhere, etc) A cynic might even suspect the value signal is more about marketing than deeply held belief.

It's always pretty funny to see companies like raytheon participate in pride parades, or companies that don't give any kind of realistic maternity leave talk about roe v wade.

Re: Amazon bows to UAE pressure to restrict LGBT search results

#160

Post by nequo »

31835843 wrote: post #85
RyEgswuCsn wrote: post #54

Do people agree that corporations should respect the customs and values of the local people when operating their business there? If yes, then Amazon is not "bowing", and it is The Guardian who is playing word games here. If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. Now, one may argue that the c…

> If not, then it would seem to imply that we are OK with western powers using their capital (instead of gunboats) to impose their ideology on other cultures in the world. “impose their ideology” is a disingenuous frame for this situation. They are censoring search results. As in, the customer, who Amazon makes money off by showing them what they want, is not being shown items that relate to what they searched for. T…

> cultural relativism is a liberal cop-out

I'm confused about what makes it liberal.

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