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USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

unsettledscience.substack.com

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Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#151

Post by ncmncm »

eurleif wrote: post #81
wintermutestwin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>high protein intake from beans and tofu and a lot of vegetables+seeds Saying "high" protein implies that the protein:carb and/or protein:fat ratio is high. Beans have a much higher carb to protein ratio and tofu/seeds have high fat to protein ratios. It is close to impossible to eat a high protein diet that is vegan. The only way to do so requires large quantities of highly processed foods (saitan, etc...)

"Processed" isn't a well-defined term to begin with, but it's strange that you seem to implying that seitan, but not tofu, is highly processed. The steps from soybeans to tofu are: 1) dry soybeans, 2) soak soybeans, 3) puree soybeans, 4) boil soybeans, 5) separate pulp (okara), 6) coagulate with a coagulant compound, 7) press into block. The steps from wheat to seitan are: 1) mill wheat into flour, 2) wash flour to r…

"Processed" from a public health standpoint means "stripped the fiber out of". It is what distinguishes real food from the toxic sludge packaged and sold (principally) to Americans and other former UK colonies, and what is killing us at an increasing rate.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#152

Post by simias »

oifjsidjf wrote: post #75
rafaelero wrote: post #68

If you want to convince regulators, perhaps you should first try to convince serious nutritionists. Because very few of them really buy this keto narrative.

And yet there are thousands of people who posted their successful weight loss or bloating and autoimmune issues online which were solved by keto or carnivore. The term "modern serious nutritionist" is a joke anyway: a true nutritionist is one who heals himself with a diet, and many people on keto do. Science advances one funeral at the time. Remember: ~150 years ago people were making fun of the guy and outsted him b…

I'm currently doing a keto diet (mainly to support my girlfriend who wanted to do it, and it's easier if we do it together) and I did lose about 7kg in less than three months so far.

That being said I remain a bit skeptical, for instance it seems to be a lot less effective for her than for me, and I feel like my weight loss may be explained by non "low-carb" factors, mainly that I eat a lot less. I have a sweet tooth and am vegetarian so I normally eat tons of carbs (pasta, rice, bread etc...). I haven't bothered monitory my caloric intake but I'm pretty certain that it dropped significantly. Meanwhile my girlfriend tends to eat relatively "low carb" even outside of this diet, so her food intake changed a lot less.

That's just an anecdote in a sea of contradictory anecdotes, but my general point is that a strict keto diet usually means huge changes in eating habits and I wonder how many of these success stories are simply people eating less/better rather than strictly the low-carb element. Obviously the reality is probably somewhere in the middle...

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#153

Post by bregma »

ncmncm wrote: post #145
triyambakam wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carb is too broad of a term. Though it generally seems to mean "processed wheat with added refined sugar and oils". Yeah, processed foods aren't healthy. But fruits and vegetables are, and they have carbs (mostly simple, i.e. sugars)

Fruit (except grapes!) has enough fiber to delay the sugar absorption for long enough that your gut biome gets first crack at it. "Metabolic disorder", aka "fatty liver disease", "processed-food disease", is a product of stripping the fiber out of almost everything. Of course juice has had its fiber stripped out. The illnesses that are killing people are products of excess uric acid that the liver emits after process…

Uric acid is a metabolite of protein. All the N's in it is the giveaway since the liver is incapable of alchemical transformation. Uric acid is a byproduct of any cell metabolizing protein.

Fructose, or "fruit sugar", is the main carbohydrate in fruits and vegetables. If you are on a low-carb "keto" diet (keto is <5% carbs, most low-carb diets are no where near ketogenic) you probably get more carbs from fructose than any other source. High-fructose corn syrup added to things is associated with fatty liver but there's a very long way between guzzling gallons of soda pop and blaming a normal natural ingredient our bodies are tuned to utilize for all problems.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#154

Post by sandos »

RelaxedTree wrote: post #52
mertd wrote: post #6

I imagine if the headline news declared that we should reduce the carbs in our diets, most Americans would up the meat intake and not vegetables, and that would reduce fiber in their diet even more.

I am not sure. I think it’s hard to tell if that would happen. A lot of low carb and keto processed foods on the market today are normally very high fibre and are more convenient to consume than making low carb meals at home which would have a reduction of fibre in comparison. However, I personally cannot eat fibrous foods. I’ve had to cut that completely out as a result of the damage fibre has done to my bowels afte…

There are lots of different fibres with different functions, and I have ended up on eating a supplement that mostly lets the stool keep is moisture content, and I have not been constipated once since I started with it: hydrolysed guar gum. This way I can avoid other fibres which are horrible to my gut. I used to try eating fibre to keep from getting constipated, but often I happened to eat some fibre that instead gave me extremely runny stool.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#155

Post by simias »

eldenwrong wrote: post #131
tpush wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is sarcasm, but the answer is wholeheartedly the meat and dairy industry.

Imagine people still believing that veggie industry is small and not a gigantic player. Every major organization/gov wants to make people eat more veggies and less meat

I don't think that makes a lot of sense but beyond that I don't get why the high-carb vs. low-carb discussion turns into a meat vs. plant-based debate in many places here.

Most people these days de-facto have a high-carb, high-meat diet. Conversely it's perfectly possible to have a low-meat, low-carb diet (I'm currently doing a vegetarian keto). To me it sounds just like yet another excuse to dunk on the silly hippy vegoonz.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#156

Post by cbozeman »

mft_ wrote: post #122
thelittleone wrote: post #32

Even without the science... for me personally at 47 and a life long sugar addict (used to eat tablespoons of white sugar from pantry), a low carb (keto) diet has been a complete game changer. I kept my weight in check by doing 6 days of exercise a week, but I was on an energetic roller coaster. 3 months in, no sugar, no cravings (I crave oils sometimes) and damn I just feel well in a way I haven't for long before I c…

How does keto work for you doing exercise? Do you have a routine or adaptation that works for you? I ask because I’ve tried keto a couple of times and usually gave up within a few weeks because it was incompatible with (energetic) cycling. The difference with huge - I was crawling up hills that usually I’d barely notice. I assume it’s because I’m very carb-adapted and/or my level of exercise intensity is too high for…

You might find Dr. Dominic D'Agostino's websites or podcasts with various people instructive. He gained prominence after being amplified on an episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, but long before that, he was developing ketogenic solutions for the ONF (Office of Naval Research), specifically using ketones and the ketogenic diet to allow SEALs to remain submerged for longer periods due to a synergistic effect with ketones and oxygen metabolism in the brain.

His websites:

https://health.usf.edu/medicine/mpp/faculty/ddagosti

https://ketonutrition.org/

He has specifically discussed how to solve the problem you had, but it's buried in one of his podcasts somewhere, and I haven't listened to them in ages.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#157

Post by kennethh »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #102
thelittleone wrote: post #32

Even without the science... for me personally at 47 and a life long sugar addict (used to eat tablespoons of white sugar from pantry), a low carb (keto) diet has been a complete game changer. I kept my weight in check by doing 6 days of exercise a week, but I was on an energetic roller coaster. 3 months in, no sugar, no cravings (I crave oils sometimes) and damn I just feel well in a way I haven't for long before I c…

Similarly, with ageing, I started having tons of small health issues + diarrhoea and blood in my faeces. I tried removing milk (I was eating milk with cereals in the morning) - which appeared to improve the situation (becoming less frequent) - but it turned out it worked only because I got rid of eating cereals in the morning and I can drink milk just fine. The doctor said nothing was wrong and that it was just stres…

I had ulcerative colitis from I was 18 until 46 which is a chronic inflammation with blood in the faeces. I switched to the carnivore diet and within some months all my symptoms disappeared. This was also confirmed with a colonoscopy in a hospital. My brain fog is also gone.

I used to be really strict but now I am more like 90-95% carnivore, but I try to get the carbs from potatoes, carrots and Nuts. I aim for under 50-100 grams on carbs a day since I lifts weights and do some CrossFit.

Info: Ulcerative colitis (UL-sur-uh-tiv koe-LIE-tis) is an inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) that causes inflammation and ulcers (sores) in your digestive tract.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#159

Post by StanislavPetrov »

vanattab wrote: post #36
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure if they were still around today those who produced food for thousands of years without chemicals would beg to differ.

His point was they are/were using chemicals regardless of if they understood the chemistry at a low level or not. When ancient people/(or modern) used dung to fertilize crops they are using chemicals. With that being said I think when the power of modern chemistry / genetic engineering and modern economic agricultureraly forces collide caution is warranted.

>His point was they are/were using chemicals regardless of if they understood the chemistry at a low level or not.

Even if that was his point, it is still completely wrong.

>It is impossible to produce food without chemicals.

If you live in the northern hemisphere, it is only June. Go plant a handful of pumpkin and watermelon seeds in a patch of fertile earth. Add no "chemicals" of any kind - man made or otherwise. Return in 4 months and you will very likely see food that has been grown with absolutely no chemicals at all.

Re: USDA ignoring the science on low-carb diets

#160

Post by swalsh »

My main issue with low carb is that humans have been eating carbs for thousands of years. The obesity epidemic is only decades old. I've seen enough evidence that low carb is working for people, so it would seem like something in the carbs we eat in particular is causing the problem... not carbs in general. We should significantly increase the science in this area in my opinion.
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