151–160 of 328 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Beat me to it. Yeah, the idea of separating the input step from the test step is something that was done in that lock as well.
Its the standard procedure for "unpickable" locks before SMH's lock too.
I'd guess many many people have had this same idea.
Please send this to https://www.youtube.com/c/lockpickinglawyer LockPickingLawyer has picked just about any and every single lock there is known to mankind. Would love to see him up against this! Would make for some great content.
He generally only shows locks he knows how to pick. Unlocking is the payoff to the video and I don't think I've seen a single video where he didn't succeed, but if you read between the lines on his older videos, you notice him talking about the locks he recently learned to pick, locks he's never been able to pick, and so on. He's very good, but he's not infallible. He just doesn't show his failures.
Interesting design. I made a lock a couple years ago that is quite similar in principle (though this design is different and has a couple nice improvements). https://youtu.be/_7vPNcnYWQ4 One of my main goals is to be an inspiration, though if it was based by my design I wish they’d credit it. Especially since they’re patenting it.
I designed something like this before. Multiple shear lines with a two stage isolation-then-check is intuitive. The details matter, though, and this looks clean. I could see it manufactured. My design tried to avoid it being possible to interact with any of the components storing the code before the pins are isolated. I did this by having two styles of pins (normal vs. T-shaped), and an insertable bar in a specially-…
Yes. If you're willing to have a really big lock, it's much easier to make room for a two-stage mechanism where the keying info is stored before use. I'd thought about a lever lock like that, but the thing would need a huge box in or behind the door.
There's a possible vulnerability here. This thing may be susceptible to comb picking. The spring channels look to be too long. If you can push the pins up beyond their normal travel, to where the disk stack reaches the top bar, then push the rear actuating pin to operate the top bar, the lock should open.
Master Lock is known for making this basic error in lock design, as Lock Picking Lawyer has pointed out. This is a fixable design mistake. You just have to have something that prevents the pins from being pushed too far.
I would imagine something that gets its energy from the outside, similar to wireless charging. So the key would provide the energy.
It could be Bluetooth or some proprietary technology.
So you hold the key next to the lock and the two devices exchange some challenge response data that proves the key holds the secret key that is allowed to open the lock.
I guess that would be unpickable. Just like a locked Android/iOS phone is unpickable.
Would anything prevent this design?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. And based on the test mechanism simply requiring a ~46 degree turn to fail, I think it could actually be done in ~300ms per attempt, which would make the maximum solution even lower at ~4 hours. That's of course still a lot better than a traditional mechanism, which even brute force robotic pickers can tear through rapidly, but it's far from "unpickable." Ultimately, even lengthening the time per attempt wou…
I am not sure if I would call trying all combinations "picking s lock" — wouldn't adding a couple of pins simply make that infeasible again? You could also bring all 46k key variations and try them out, and you'll open it with 23k attempts on average, but that would not make the lock pickable if I was to talk about it. I have no clue about locks, but there's a difference between brute forcing a password and decryptin…
Lockpicking is defined as opening a lock with an instrument other than the appropriate key. It is not defined by how many attempts it takes. Many of the most common lockpicking methods are nothing more than brute force, which are sometimes incredibly effective. They're also sometimes the opposite of effective, meaning they may take many thousands of attempts before stumbling upon success. That doesn't disqualify them from the definition of lockpicking.
> You could also bring all 46k key variations and try them out [...] but that would not make the lock pickable if I was to talk about it.
The entire point of lockpicking is that you don't need to make every key combination, and instead only need a small set of tools or a single device. The personal decision to make every key instead of using another method, doesn't mean the lock isn't pickable, it just means you spent a lot of time making keys. You could also make all of the keys for a basic $1 padlock, but that padlock is still pickable with a paperclip. It didn't become unpickable by creating the keys.
> I have no clue about locks, but there's a difference between brute forcing a password and decrypting it from the hash.
Yes, the difference is that one will definitely take longer than the other, but you don't actually know which until you've successfully completed the task. They're both still password cracking methods with the same end result. One doesn't magically stop being a cracking method just because it takes longer.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Def want to see Enclave's under Lock Picking Lawyer! If you make a "unpickable lock" you'd def want to send it to LPL, that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick. The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag. Do it in the open, like Stuff Made Here!
Didn't know HN had so many lock experts and lawyers frequenting the site. Dozens of comments have already detected an IP violation, half the thread is recommending ways the lock can be tested or people it needs to be sent to for confirmation of the unpickable claim... As someone who doesn't know anything about lockpicking, I feel like part of a weird minority here. What do I know but I'd assumed one would take it to…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The interaction of engineering and "use" by the Lock Picking Lawyer ( https://youtu.be/Ecy1FBdCRbQ ) was fascinating - "use" here really meaning "exploiting". It's a problem many here are aware of, either by over-engineering things intended for use by non-engineers, or designing things to be used by customers when the designer isn't intimately familiar with the use. In this case it was sort of somewhere in between. I…
Def want to see Enclave's under Lock Picking Lawyer! If you make a "unpickable lock" you'd def want to send it to LPL, that's like the ultimate proof of how easy/hard it is to pick. The fact that there's no video, with how approachable LPL is and accepts random locks in his PO box, can only be seen as a red flag. Do it in the open, like Stuff Made Here!
I would assume there's much better locksmiths on the planet than the most famous one on youtube who does it as a side job.
This actually might be unpickable. But the small space of keys (6^6 combinations) makes me think you could just fabricate every single key and test them one by one, if you were really determined
You could create a single mechanically adjustable key and a device to automatically try every combination.