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What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

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Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#151

I initially dismissed the lab leak hypothesis because surely nobody would be stupid enough to make new SARS virus strains on purpose. They’re worthless as biological weapons, and the risks are insane. Then it turns out that that is precisely the type of research the Wuhan lab does regularly. And then when our prime minister merely suggested an investigation, China put punitive tariffs on billions of dollars of our ex…

They lied, and it's been documented - but that cuts both ways. They also lied about wild animals being sold at their market.

From Bloomberg:

When an international group of experts organized by the World Health Organization traveled to Wuhan, China, earlier this year to research the origins of the coronavirus that sparked the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, they visited the Baishazhou market, which is larger, but perhaps less well-known (internationally, at least) than the Huanan market, where many people initially believed the virus first jumped from wild animals to humans.

The research team was told only frozen foods, ingredients, and kitchenware were sold there. But a recently released study that had previously languished in publishing limbo showed, thanks to data meticulously collected over 30 months, that at least two vendors there regularly sold live wild animals, Bloomberg reports. Bloomberg also notes that one of the earliest recorded COVID-19 clusters in Wuhan [December 19th] involved a Huanan stall employee who traded goods back and forth between the two markets."

It seems likely to Goldstein that some authorities didn't want the presence of a thriving wildlife trade to become public knowledge. "It seems to me, at a minimum, that local or regional authorities kept that information quiet deliberately. It's incredible to me that people theorize about one type of cover-up," he said, likely referring to the hypothesis that the virus actually leaked from a nearby government-run lab, "but an obvious cover-up is staring them right in the face."

https://news.yahoo.com/virologist-suggests-coronavirus-origi...

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's not either/or. COVID could have come from nature, captured and studied in a lab, then escaped.

Indeed. It could also have come from nature and while it was being studied in the lab, a similar strain made a jump to humans.

Did you click on the link and read the thread?

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Understanding the origin doesn't change the consequences or response to the pandemic I have the opposite opinion. If there was a lab leak and a coverup, this meant that the Chinese government likely knew earlier and had more information about the nature of the virus and how it spread. That could have saved millions of lives. We spent the first several months of the pandemic under the belief that it wasn't airbor…

> That could have saved millions of lives But that still doesn't change the consequences or response to the pandemic. That's coulda-woulda-shoulda reasoning.

Of course it does. It will impact other countries relationships with china. And it would impact the kind and level of scrutiny over this kind of research.

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#154
post #132
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be blunt here. No one with medical training thought this wasn't airborne.

Funny then how for the first few months of the pandemic the emphasis and public guidance was on desinfecting hands and surfaces and endless debates about how if masks actually help.

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Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#155
post #132
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be blunt here. No one with medical training thought this wasn't airborne.

Funny then how for the first few months of the pandemic the emphasis and public guidance was on desinfecting hands and surfaces and endless debates about how if masks actually help.

That was deliberate disinformation in order to save masks for the "frontline workers". Fauci has stated that in one of the hearings.

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#156
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) Understanding the origin doesn't change the consequences or response to the pandemic I have the opposite opinion. If there was a lab leak and a coverup, this meant that the Chinese government likely knew earlier and had more information about the nature of the virus and how it spread. That could have saved millions of lives. We spent the first several months of the pandemic under the belief that it wasn't airbor…

I'm going to be blunt here. No one with medical training thought this wasn't airborne.

The communication at the beginning was that it was only spread through respiratory droplets, so therefore the combination of social distancing and cloth/surgical masks would be sufficient.

Airborne/aerosol transmission was only acknowledged by the WHO and CDC in May of 2021, over a year after the pandemic was declared. And taking that long to acknowledge it makes me think it wasn't just a strategic lie to preserve the supply of respirators for medical staff.

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#157
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link some sources here? Call me skeptical, but if the evidence is as convincing as you make it sound, then it implies a pretty widespread conspiracy among experts (of many countries and affiliations) who would understand the implications yet are deliberately mis-communicating via their podcasts, news appearances, papers in famous journals, etc. Are there any papers published on this or is it just in the book…

A loose conspiracy of a bunch of social media scientists/journalists? Wouldn't the overall size and diversity of the field mean that there would be at least a few dissenters presenting more factual alternatives? You should just read the book. It's not very convincing. The most likely explanation for the lack of interest in identifying the origins is primarly a lack of data. Speculating about conspiracies does not hel…

> at least a few dissenters presenting more factual alternatives?

Are there not?

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#158
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Australia proposed an international investigation into the origins, in direct response, China started cyber attacks, resentencing Australian prisoners to death, and used economic warfare. This seems like a conversation we can not have, if China has any say in it. And for a natural origin spillover event, it sure wants to have its say...

If your claims are true, then the fact that I (and others) didn't know this is seriously disturbing. I think a lot of people would have doubled down and pushed for alot more pressure and investigation into all of China's dealings across the board, if they had known. At the very least it's an indictment on our media which should be pointing out these curious coincidences. Instead I think they have other motives.

I don't know about the other two but Australian coal was put under sanction by china in the wake of their call for an investigation. This, ironically, was quite bad for china since it indirectly led to power cuts in some provinces because they couldn't use the lower grade of coal otherwise available.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/03/australia-finds-new-markets-...

Power cuts later that fall: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58733193

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#159
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lab leak hypothesis was also pretty tightly coupled with the bioweapon/intentional release theory which is part of why it received so much push back. Also I don't recall the specific fact check messages but if they were in line with "there's no hard evidence of a lab leak" I'd say that's still pretty accurate.

It was tightly coupled to that stuff by fact checkers and other opponents to silence any questions.

Despite being made of flimsy material, some of these straw men are actually quite effective, it seems.

Re: What happened to the lab-leak hypothesis?

#160

9/11 cost us ~ 3000 lives? And we spent 20 years fighting wars, killing 100s of 1000s of people, bombing the shit out of entire countries, and trillions of dollars in trying to exact revenge. COVID kills 1,000,000 people (and counting...), which is 333X the death toll from 9/11; and we just shrug and do nothing? Just doesn't compute.

One is an intentional act by a group of people. The other is, at worst, an accident where the main actor is a molecule.

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