Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are the nonsensical activities you get paid to do?
For example solving specific problems in a data-driven way when there is no data and there never will be any data. Developing all sorts of platforms that will theoretically benefit the public / researchers / whoever, but in actuality will never be used by anyone and in fact will be shut down as soon as the corresponding project ends. Those are the two generic examples I can think of, for everything else I'd have to g…
As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
151–160 of 332 posts
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#152I am a post-doc in one of the ivory towers. I've been in the system a long time (technician, MD, PhD, residency, fellowship, now post doc). Jeez! I am a computational immunologist who studies cancer immunotherapy, if it matters. I am not independently wealthy or blah blah. I am a normal everyday person. I agree academia is nonsensical for the many reasons that are frequently discussed in HN. Mine is not a perspective…
Would the pay scales below for post-doc positions be about rightish or make you laugh hysterically?
https://www.crick.ac.uk/careers-study/postdocs
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/human-resources/pay-and-pensions/...
Just to put a rough scale on things
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#153If you pay much lower than the industry and only give people temporary positions, it's not surprising people go elsewhere when they can. The solution is also quite obvious...
I hate the trivialization of this. The solution is not obvious. Paying more/longer requires more money. Where does that money come from? At least in my areas of science (chemistry), most of this money comes from grants, which comes from the NIH, DOE, or NSF depending on the project. Ultimately it comes from taxpayers, and portioned out by Congress. So the solution is either to get Congress to really care about this (…
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#154Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…
> a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role Where do you get these numbers from? This is not at all like that in Europe. A postdoc gets (say, in France) 30k per year, doing a calm, interesting job and paid travel to a couple of conferences per year, with almost total freedom to choose their daily schedule. This is not a high salary, but it is c…
CS is certainly an outlier in terms of salaries, but ANY person capable of landing a postdoc in a STEM field at a competitive school in the US is capable of figuring out a way to get a job as a software engineer in Big Tech (the grind of leet code is nothing compared to the grind of doing a PhD, full stop). This is why >60% of PhD grads in CS across top schools are ending up in industry, and I knew a TON of PhDs from physics, math, chemistry, etc. who left research immediately after graduating and are now SWE.
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hate the trivialization of this. The solution is not obvious. Paying more/longer requires more money. Where does that money come from? At least in my areas of science (chemistry), most of this money comes from grants, which comes from the NIH, DOE, or NSF depending on the project. Ultimately it comes from taxpayers, and portioned out by Congress. So the solution is either to get Congress to really care about this (…
I hate the helplessness of this. You have agency. You also have responsibility. You have a chemistry phd. You don't have to build your career on other people's crushed financial futures. Either find a job where you can pay people well or find a job where you don't need to manage other people's labor to stay employed. I have A LOT of dubious pet projects I could convince NSF to fund and would love to work on if I had…
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#156If you pay much lower than the industry and only give people temporary positions, it's not surprising people go elsewhere when they can. The solution is also quite obvious...
I hate the trivialization of this. The solution is not obvious. Paying more/longer requires more money. Where does that money come from? At least in my areas of science (chemistry), most of this money comes from grants, which comes from the NIH, DOE, or NSF depending on the project. Ultimately it comes from taxpayers, and portioned out by Congress. So the solution is either to get Congress to really care about this (…
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#157Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…
But in spite of an excellent CV, with the caveat that I had no affiliations with top schools and was not part of any in-group--I did not know how important both would be for an academic career, I though my many well-cited publications and clear and long-term research plans would have been enough.
Over the years, I applied for at least 70 tenure-track positions for which I felt I had a good chance of making at least the shortlist of 20 viable candidates. I was called for just one preliminary phone interview.
I started applying for industrial positions in Machine Learning and, after receiving a few offers, took a job that paid 5 times my last postdoc salary (my last contract was 6 months, so it would have been 10 times). It has been a fulfilling, very well paid, and fun career so far.
I always recommend that not-too-promising postdocs consider a career in the private sector early on, especially in technology or related fields. They rarely listen, think or led to believe they are different. They aren't.
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#158I am a post-doc in one of the ivory towers. I've been in the system a long time (technician, MD, PhD, residency, fellowship, now post doc). Jeez! I am a computational immunologist who studies cancer immunotherapy, if it matters. I am not independently wealthy or blah blah. I am a normal everyday person. I agree academia is nonsensical for the many reasons that are frequently discussed in HN. Mine is not a perspective…
Good for you. Would the pay scales below for post-doc positions be about rightish or make you laugh hysterically? https://www.crick.ac.uk/careers-study/postdocs https://www.imperial.ac.uk/human-resources/pay-and-pensions/... Just to put a rough scale on things
I guess since I sling code/data I take a pretty nice pay cut relative to that also.
Whoops!
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like he went ABD. In the US, PhDs can take 6-8+ years. There are some shitty advisors who delay their students' graduations to get additional low-wage labor. Also, the academic job market is terrible and has been for 30+ years, so it takes a full year just to do the search.
Expanding the acronym for non-academia, ABD is "all but dissertation". After the first 2-3 years of a PhD program, the coursework is finished, you're into mostly independent research, and so you've completed "all but dissertation". This is a nebulous time that could be as short as 1-2 years, and could be as long as 5-10 years. The shorter durations tend to be in the sciences, and the longer durations in the humanitie…
At least one world famous research university has a fix for this problem of "... when the advisor agrees":
The official statement of the university is that the Ph.D. student must submit "an original contribution to knowledge worthy of publication".
So, if a student believes that they have done such work, then they are free to, and maybe should, submit it for publication. When the work is accepted for publication, the student can then so announce to the professor, department school, and university.
Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia
#160Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…
The problems are also way out of the ordinary. I’d like to draw a parallel with medicine. Most researchers are doctors who interact and treat patients. In contrast - I think a lot of engineering post docs or phds may not be working on stuff the industry cares about.