I wonder if this applies to contractors working at their campuses. From what I've heard, here in Fargo most of the people working at the Microsoft campus work for Archway
Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
151–160 of 329 posts
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#152There are a ton of people here who probably make 6 figures complaining about pay ranges in job postings. I am not sure I fully see how this is a problem, any minimum wage job says pay range (or a specific rate), any job for dish washers or line cooks say $18 a hour or what not, a tech job with a six figure salary should at least say a range, since it varies based on skill and department. I haven't read a single respo…
> I haven't read a single response that I agree with as to why this is a negative? ...They are going to provide a range like $42k to $55k Why? Its like prop 65 cancer warnings being on 100% of the products and buildings in CA. Its just a thing you do so as to avoid liability. Now, we have these useless warnings pasted everywhere that have no meaning beyond compliance. Is CA better off with these warnings? I can't ima…
I'm sorry, I don't see how this is the same. Will you explain why you think they are similar?
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's an example. California passes a law, and because doing business in California is good for the bottom line they will comply with the law, and in so doing set a new defacto national standard. But, if this burden becomes too onerous, the business can simply not do business with California or move out of California. But, California is such a large market it's quite a high burden to reach.
This isn't epwr's claim. His claim is that Washington has written and passed a law that binds Microsoft's operations outside Washington state, which I'm pretty sure would violate the commerce clause.
> His claim is that Washington has written and passed a law that binds Microsoft's operations outside Washington state, which I'm pretty sure would violate the commerce clause.
The commerce clause does not prevent states from having laws which impact interstate commerce unless:
(1) They are preempted by federal exercise of commerce clause powers (though that's really a supremacy clause issue), or
(2) they discriminate against or excessively burden interstate commerce (the dormant commerce clause doctrine).
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in CO and we recently had a similar law pass that required companies to disclose salary ranges. Like you said it does absolutely nothing, companies will list "Senior Software Engineer" with a salary of "$70k - $240k". This often times isn't even the range for the current position, but the "entire range" of offers they extend to any level of SWE.
Not only are the salary bands meaninglessly wide, but I'd bet that if someone was really great and justified more than the upper bound, the company (Microsoft, but any other rational company too) would, of course, pay that higher amount since it's in their interest to do so.
They are not meaninglessly wide. These laws are of great benefit to those earning the least in society. They get to easily see which occupations and businesses pay more and where their labor should be allocated.
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#155Individual states’ pay transparency laws are already applying upwards pressure on salaries across the country. My company has multiple groups in different states including Colorado, and in anticipation of needing to post salary ranges for our open positions in Colorado, my group (with no positions in Colorado) preemptively bumped up everyone’s salaries to the midpoint of their pay bands to avoid anyone becoming frust…
I'm leaving my company because it took so much "upwards pressure" to make this happen. Literally hundreds of people screaming in a townhall that the companies wages were so low that housing was eating up most of their paycheck while mandating a return to work from the top. This is in the Bay Area. I do think there's something to be said about a company that does not tend to the needs of its flock proactively.
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed 100%. At big tech salary is close to useless and rarely the primary number that changes during negotiations. My highest paying job -- a 3.5x raise -- came with a $75K salary cut compared to my previous job. This should be, by far, the top voted comment. I don't think MSFT sharing salary ranges is consequential in any way.
Sure it is. If more start to do it, it becomes an arms race. If a company is loading the compensation in other ways and coming in light on salary then their job posting becomes much less compelling for job seekers. So they have a choice: disclose the other compensation (in order to compete with the salary numbers of the other companies) or adjust their compensation to be heavier on salary so their numbers are in line…
I'm sad more companies don't up their 401k contributions, most people don't realize their employer can put in 40k a year (!!!) into an employee's 401k. Due to the wonders of tax law, that is equiv to 60k cash, and that isn't counting the earnings or the flexibility to reallocate 401k investments w/o having to pay taxes on earnings when changing where the money is invested.
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What's the actual problem that including salaries tries to solve? It tries to solve pay equity problems. https://hr.uw.edu/comp/pay-equity/salary-setting-guidance/
> Employers must provide equal compensation to similarly employed workers The kicker is "similarly employed". I've seen people with the same job title earn a differential of 3x, but that's simply because one negotiated better and was more economically valuable (had about 1.5 more decades' experience) than the other, yet they had the same job title. I guess we could argue to control for years' experience, but I've see…
Beginner microeconomics courses teach that for the best allocation of resources, a market must have price transparency. How else are market participants supposed to ascertain the movements of supply and demand curves?
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#158This is going do to absolutely nothing. Most of this legislation does nothing to really address the potential for folks to just advertise incredibly wide potential salary ranges, to say nothing of alternative ways that they can change total compensation "for the right candidate," if you catch my drift. I would suspect that the biggest effect of this is to actually lead to overall greater distrusts, as folks will make…
All regulations have limited effectiveness. This one is a step in the right direction. The tech industry tends to dismiss government action as misguided, unenforceable, or watered down. Meanwhile, the free market gives us Ring cameras where the data is fed directly to the state for illegal surveillance.
Regulations are an integral part of a free society.
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#159> Microsoft said it would disclose salary ranges in all internal and external U.S. job postings no later than January 2023. That date is when Washington state, where Microsoft’s headquarters are located, will start requiring employers with at least 15 employees to disclose salary ranges for each position. In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law.
> In other news, Microsoft to comply with a new law Microsoft is under no obligation to comply with Washington law outside Washington. That's what they're doing here.
My guess is they see the writing on the wall with this one. Colorado and Washington both have laws about this now. I wouldn't be surprised to see California and New York implement something similar in the next year or two.
Re: Microsoft will include pay ranges in all U.S. job postings
#160There are a ton of people here who probably make 6 figures complaining about pay ranges in job postings. I am not sure I fully see how this is a problem, any minimum wage job says pay range (or a specific rate), any job for dish washers or line cooks say $18 a hour or what not, a tech job with a six figure salary should at least say a range, since it varies based on skill and department. I haven't read a single respo…
At some point as a high achiever you end up worrying about the ceiling rather than the floor.
For example, let's say a software job is listed with a range of $200k to $250k comp. And you want more than that. But will the employer be willing, or allowed, to negotiate with you an amount over $250k? After all, the job posting says $250k is the top of the range. Maybe it would be illegal to pay you more! But at a company that does not list salary ranges, maybe there is more wiggle room.
Transparency is good for people who are average at their jobs and get average pay. For other people, the benefits are unclear.