Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta • Hacker News Board

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#151

Post by caffeine » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:17 AM UTC

freediver wrote: post #96

nine_k wrote: post #78

> But it costs us about $1 to process 80 searches. > At $10/month, the price does not even cover our cost for average use, and we are basically betting that average use will go down a bit with time because during beta people may be searching more than normal Oh. I'd say that if I switched to Kagi as to the main search engine, I would increase the number of searches I make. And I definitely do many dozens a day. Their…

> Their reported beta-testers usage is 30 / day. At their current expense level, that would be $116.25 / mo. 30 searches/day comes to around $11/mo. We expect the quantity of usage will drop with time because a) we make a better product that helps you find stuff more quickly (so quality of usage goes up) b) lot of users are still searching more then normal because of novelty of product, testing etc. Of course we coul…

I would think that as you grow, economies of scale will kick in and the cost per search should go way, way down.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#152

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:18 AM UTC

iamjbn wrote: post #145

ls15 wrote: post #125

> We care deeply about privacy. We will be good stewards of any personal information you share with us (we do not ask for any apart from your email address which can be any email really). We do not log or associate searches with an account, because we do not want or need to. More details in our privacy policy. Is there a way to pay the fee anonymously? I am not interested in linking my search history to my real name,…

Anonymous payment is a good idea. Do you use any other service that supports anonymous payments?

Yes, VPN and e-mail.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#153

Post by caffeine » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:24 AM UTC

freediver wrote: post #118

lumost wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years ago I would agree, however we now have. - Technology which can extract frightening amounts of information from search history, location data, and other data sources. It's not 2012 anymore when a google or FB ui just showing the places you had been was enough to get me to give over that kind of data. - Ad based search engines literally filling the search page with ads. - SEO spam so severe that the non-ads are…

> Given all of this, and a young daughter who will be browsing the internet in another year or two - I'd be willing to pay for a search engine. Thanks for saying this, it is not been discussed enough. The main reason I started Kagi was exactly to protect my own kids from being exposed to ads and tracking from the very young age.

This is a random place to throw this at you, but you seem like you have a) the skills and b) and the motivation.

The internet needs an “allowlist” front end for kids, especially for video platforms.

I would pay $20/month for a family subscription to a front end app for Netflix and YouTube that lets me allowlist shows and channels, and never lets Netflix or Youtube AI choose what to show my kids next.

Netflix in particular is extremely subversive. I have seen it stop a show mid-episode to suggest a new show to my 6yo - which is clearly aimed at slightly more mature audiences, and is therefore more exciting/scary for my daughter.

The AI is constantly pushing her toward more mature content even if she doesn’t choose it. And there is NO WAY to stop it other than just get rid of Netflix entirely, but they also have by far the best content for kids.

Anyway, a browser with proper kids controls, good UX for the parents, and especially the ability to filter/block the closed video platforms, would be huge.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#154

Post by sph » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

thematrixturtle wrote: post #85

function_seven wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience matches yours. When I was using DDG, it was mostly sufficient. I'd fall back on Google a few times a month. I haven't yet done that with Kagi. I just entered my CC details into Kagi (using Orion, natch). I hope more people follow suit. I really want this model to succeed.

Kagi's quite good for general purpose searches, but there's a number of specific queries where it falls down: timezones ("9AM SF in Tokyo") and currency conversions ("100000 JPY in USD") are two big ones for me. It would be great if Kagi could open source the engine that powers these queries, so people could contribute their own features.

That currency conversion query works for me. I've used it a few times the past week.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#155

Post by Beltiras » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:25 AM UTC

freediver wrote: post #96

nine_k wrote: post #78

> But it costs us about $1 to process 80 searches. > At $10/month, the price does not even cover our cost for average use, and we are basically betting that average use will go down a bit with time because during beta people may be searching more than normal Oh. I'd say that if I switched to Kagi as to the main search engine, I would increase the number of searches I make. And I definitely do many dozens a day. Their…

> Their reported beta-testers usage is 30 / day. At their current expense level, that would be $116.25 / mo. 30 searches/day comes to around $11/mo. We expect the quantity of usage will drop with time because a) we make a better product that helps you find stuff more quickly (so quality of usage goes up) b) lot of users are still searching more then normal because of novelty of product, testing etc. Of course we coul…

The index cost is flat per search so with higher adoption it should come down (right?).

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#156

Post by iamjbn » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:26 AM UTC

elktea wrote: post #13

I enjoy Kagi, results are great. I hope the pricing comes down a little in future. edit: just paid, it came to about $15AUD after bank conversion fees which is about the price of a streaming service here.

It's interesting to see that you have paid for Kagi. Do you regularly pay for any other services that are privacy-focused?

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#157

Post by 2malaq » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

reeqan wrote: post #135

lettergram wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only question — do you censor based on politics or political correctness?

As per their FAQ, they don't seem to.

But as per searching for "rt.com" it seems they do.

Edit: But as soon as I changed the region to 'International' instead of my own region within the EU, it produced the relevant results.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#158

Post by ls15 » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 10:06 AM UTC

iamjbn wrote: post #145

ls15 wrote: post #125

> We care deeply about privacy. We will be good stewards of any personal information you share with us (we do not ask for any apart from your email address which can be any email really). We do not log or associate searches with an account, because we do not want or need to. More details in our privacy policy. Is there a way to pay the fee anonymously? I am not interested in linking my search history to my real name,…

Anonymous payment is a good idea. Do you use any other service that supports anonymous payments?

In Germany there is a payment provider (viacash) that allows customers to pay in cash at selected retailers. You get a code, it gets scanned in the supermarket, you pay without any requirement for identification and get a confirmation. Big fan of that, but unfortunately only few websites are using it yet.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#159

Post by skrtskrt » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 10:08 AM UTC

freediver wrote: post #4

Founder here, it was quite a journey very excited to be launching beta today with payments. The idea of paying for web search was unimaginable three years ago when we started this. AMA!

I just want to say thank you, I think I’ve only opted to use Google a handful of times since I started using Kagi for work (software eng).

I always thought that JetBrains IDEs were the only products that raised my professional productivity so much that they were worth paying for, but now Kagi will join that club.

Re: Kagi search and Orion browser enter public beta

#160

Post by 5evOX5hTZ9mYa9E » Thu, Jun 02, 2022, 10:38 AM UTC

I've been using Kagi for about three weeks and the experience has been excellent. I think I reverted to Google maybe twice, and for many searches Kagi has been simply better.

Despite all of this, 10 bucks a month is a tough sell to me. I understand the cost structure, and I am not saying that this product is not something worth paying for, because it is. It feels like the golden age of Google, and that's what I've been looking for.

But there are many other things I could spend 10 bucks a month on, and get much more value from it. I think the problem is that subscriptions as a funding model have such a limited runway for each person, and very quickly you start having to compete against not only other products in the same category (search engines here), but other subscription services. The value you provide not only has to beat Google, but also Netflix, Bitwarden, my email domain and email service, the VPS I'm hosting a few services on and a few other bits and bobs I'm subscribed to. When it comes down to it, I only have so many dollars I can allocate for subscriptions a month, and I don't think Kagi, excellent as it is, will make that cut.