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PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

nature.com

151–160 of 248 posts

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#151

How is this any different from 20, 30, 40 years ago?? Hint: it's not.

Wages are sticky. Inflation keeps on going up. It's worse.

I finished grad school twenty years ago. My stipend was $1100/month for nine months and no tuition waiver. They did let me pay in-state tuition, since I was an employee within the state. For a while, I spent 60% of my after-tax stipend check on housing.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 40% of employees aren't paid by the university system's academic arm, but by the healthcare section. 30% are academic staff, and 30% are support staff.

Even with the cost of medicine going through the roof, college kids don't incur a whole lot of medical costs on average. So it's surprising the university would need to spend so much there.

They're effectively separate organizations. One runs the universities, the other runs the hospitals + med schools.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but what is the return on investment? The incentive to have a alumni department to increase donations clearly isn’t in the best interests of society.

Society has decided that it doesn't want to support American universities through tax dollars [1] so you can't really blame universities for trying to find any and all other sources of funding. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-hig...

What about tuition?

Or monetize research instead of gifting it to large (pharmaceutical) companies?

This isn’t the only way for education to fund itself, and the incentives are not aligned with the mission.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every other country in the world. Europe pays $8/gal or more depending.

People in the US are very spoiled in this regard. In Europe and Asia having a car and being able to afford to drive it is honestly a luxury.

Lots of countries in Asia have a variety of taxi-style transport services that make owning a car not as necessary.

For example, just in India alone you can hitch a ride on a bicycle rickshaw, auto-rickshaw, taxi, bus, train or subway. It's pretty easy to get around anywhere without having to drive, but this is also only possible because labor costs are so absurdly low (and of course, generally not that great for the drivers), with costs for private rides on the first 3 often comparable to public transport costs in the US.

Plus, Europe and Asia are generally more densely populated than the US, so having a car is a status symbol in that it shows that you can afford a safe place to keep a car. Meanwhile, outside of big cities like NYC (where car ownership is similarly a bit of a luxury), people easily have room to safely park one car per family member.

These are all heavily intertwined factors though, just as owning a car isn't as much of a status symbol in less densely populated areas, owning a car is less necessary in more densely populated areas.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#155
post #89
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PhD students by law cannot work more than 20 hours a week. Most have 9 month stipend appointments. Wat. Citation needed.

I can't speak to the "by law" part. But many universities, including two that I have experience with, consider the PhD stipend to be compensation for a part time job (RA/TA), accounting for 20 hours of the student's time, with the idea that the remaining 20 hours are to be devoted to taking classes. And during the summer, when a student may not be taking classes, a student may receive a full 40 hours' worth of compen…

If you think the main thing PhDs do aside from doing RA/TA is taking classes, you don't understand what a PhD involves that well...

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but what is the return on investment? The incentive to have a alumni department to increase donations clearly isn’t in the best interests of society.

Society has decided that it doesn't want to support American universities through tax dollars [1] so you can't really blame universities for trying to find any and all other sources of funding. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-hig...

Providing education isn't expensive; big campuses and teams of administrators are. Universities could easily return to the old ways, just cap annual loans at $20k per head. It would be painful, but they're fat, and what they're doing is bad for society.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#157
In case some is curious about how it is in Europe: I'm a PhD student (physics) in Denmark and I get 2500$/month after tax. I save from 1000$ to 1500$ each month. Disclaimer: I bike everywhere and share a 1400$/month flat with partner. Also, the entire pay comes directly from the university, I never had to apply to get funding after getting accepted (this was the main reason to go to Denmark).

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society has decided that it doesn't want to support American universities through tax dollars [1] so you can't really blame universities for trying to find any and all other sources of funding. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-hig...

What about tuition? Or monetize research instead of gifting it to large (pharmaceutical) companies? This isn’t the only way for education to fund itself, and the incentives are not aligned with the mission.

In terms of drug research the value of the discovery rises only after the clinical trials are complete.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but what is the return on investment? The incentive to have a alumni department to increase donations clearly isn’t in the best interests of society.

Society has decided that it doesn't want to support American universities through tax dollars [1] so you can't really blame universities for trying to find any and all other sources of funding. [1] https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-budget-and-tax/state-hig...

>"Society has decided that it doesn't want to support American universities through tax dollars."

This is hyperbole, the government is spending billions on American Universities in a myriad of different ways. And, many ways of support are not direct. One could argue that the guaranteed student loan programs are a roundabout way of supporting universities through tax dollars as well.

Re: PhD students face cash crisis with wages that don’t cover living costs

#160
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is all this tuition even going to? Schools in the US charge an absurd amount of tuition compared to schools in Europe/Asia and yet these colleges are also systematically underpaying PhD students, Teaching Assistants, etc. College Professors don't exactly make the big bucks either. Yet, universities in the US have made put many Americans in lifelong debt. These colleges are all "nonprofit" (and get significant t…

> Where is all this tuition even going to? I have a family member who works in the “alumni relations” department of a small, regional public university. Probably ranked like #300 or something. There are like 5 people in the department. They make a magazine, email newsletter and schedule alumni events. It was really surreal when they explained their job and that the department exists. There’s an admin costs problem in…

Part of the issue is TOO MUCH governance. We have loaded colleges down with regulations and requirements, which then require administrators to handle these rules. Most of these administrative roles are not optional (at least not if you don't want to get sued).

Most of these requirements independently make sense, but the sum impact weighs down universities and drives up cost.

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