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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#151

Post by emteycz »

stef25 wrote: post #139
belter wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed hilariously naive. "Naked Baby Photos Lead to Parents' Arrest" https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/naked-baby-p...

> The case of a Utah couple charged with a crime for photos they took of a father kissing his naked baby These cases are absurd but we're talking about the EU here, not the US.

And if this passes, we will have plenty of examples from the EU too. Here it was not as easy to crack down on people because we take privacy very seriously, but it will happen as soon as the state gets the power to do it.

See for example how we treat people who have few grams of weed on them. We protect innocent people, you say? Bullshit, we crack down on gardening shops if they're even just slightly connected to the weed culture!

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#152

Post by hnthrowaway0328 »

Basically some excuses to increase bureaucratic power.

Step 1: Find some excuses (climate, gender equality, CSAM, all legitimate)

Step 2: Create layers and layers of committees and legislations (happy lawyers and maybe accountants), increase social cost in general

Step 3: Extend to other purposes if possible

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#153

Post by Freak_NL »

londons_explore wrote: post #134
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

> I get sent pictures and clips of his progress Those pictures will be seen by you and grandma, but also maybe by employees of whoever you use to backup the pictures, whatever security services have a need to view the images, whichever police forensics department may need to look through your or grandmas phone if it were to be confiscated, etc. Those employees need a good work environment, and can't be expected to lo…

Having an actual person see those pics is totally fine. No one in their right mind would see anything but normal child raising there, and the judicial process has checks to prevent abuse by any one actor. It's algorithms I'm concerned about.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#154

Post by wongarsu »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #96
chinathrow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everything encrypted at rest will be a must.

And even then, weaknesses are built into encryption, long-term it may be broken with advances in computing (I mean who knows what the NSA and co are working on at the moment), etc. It's better to not do or have anything illegal. Make it so you can say "I have nothing to hide", but don't give them access voluntarily because of that.

If NSA has a backdoor or has broken the encryption you are using, they will want to keep that secret for as long as possible to get the greatest possible use out of it. They will use it covertly (using parallel construction to keep it out of court cases) on important cases like (actual) national security, mafia or people running dark net marketplaces, spying on friendly and hostile governments etc.

But they won't risk it for someone with a CSAM match or anything similarly uninteresting, and local authorities won't even be aware that it's something their government can do.

Still, don't do anything illegal, but I think for most people it's legitimate to have a threat profile that assumes that encryption is effective.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#155

Post by belter »

stef25 wrote: post #139
belter wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed hilariously naive. "Naked Baby Photos Lead to Parents' Arrest" https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/naked-baby-p...

> The case of a Utah couple charged with a crime for photos they took of a father kissing his naked baby These cases are absurd but we're talking about the EU here, not the US.

"Family goes through seven months of hell falsely accused of child porn charges after Spanish police misread US-style date in tip-off from American group"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8731961/Family-goes...

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#156

Post by varispeed »

blibble wrote: post #13
cebert wrote: post #9

CSAM is terrible but how common is it to justify invading all of our privacy. Cars can kill people. Should we ban those? We know alcohol is damaging, maybe we should ruin that fun for everyone too.

> Cars can kill people. Should we ban those? the EU commission's starting on this one too: https://www.sae.org/news/2019/04/eu-to-mandate-intelligent-s...

Once they know what you talk about with your acquaintances, they can just trigger your (on subscription) car to drive into a tree and rewrite the car's black box so that it will look like an accident. Of course that would happen only if your social credit score is very very low.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#157

Post by peoplefromibiza »

Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

> The automated filter won't care about the context though

That's why we have a justice system.

Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se.

People are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof's on the prosecution.

We are talking about EU here, not Sudan.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#159

Post by tluyben2 »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #120
chinathrow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, everything encrypted at rest will be a must.

Then encryption becomes evidence of guilt, unless you give up the key so they can search it to make sure you're not guilty.

Yeah also not, they will need to have proof of at least connections with some criminal networks to compel you to do that.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#160

Post by pc86 »

me_me_me wrote: post #125
zosima wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, as this is not about child sex abuse anyway. The legislators know, from experience, that it's hard to argue against measures to protect children from predators, and so they are free to launch controversial and unacceptable measures. Once in place, it will be extended to other purposes. The same as always.

> Don't worry... Unless you are going through a nasty divorce and you future ex starts throwing accusations of you keeping and constantly watching those videos.

Easy, then we'll just add additional tracking to everyone's personal devices that tells the government what is on your screen and for how long. For the children, of course! /s
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