Live data from Hacker News

Jeffrey Snower was originally demoted over PowerShell

twitter.com

151–153 of 153 posts

Re: Jeffrey Snower was originally demoted over PowerShell

#151

This is an intriguing peek into some upper echelon MS politics. He notes he got busted down from L69 to L68 - L68 is a significant cutoff inside MS, titled “Partner”. L70 is “Distinguished Engineer”. For recent years, L68 all-in comp is probably right around $1mm a year, although I’m sure that was a bit lower when PowerShell was being written, and much higher in toto if you held on to your RSUs. What surprises me is…

Also very interesting details on his presentation:

"Digital Transformation: Thriving Through the Transition - Jeffrey Snover, Microsoft"

https://youtu.be/nKyF8fzed0w

Re: Jeffrey Snower was originally demoted over PowerShell

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zx really intends to be a scripting language (and i think it does a good job) that happens to be javascript. Personally I feel like thenbiggest missing piece ZX would beed to be a good straight up competitor to bash or zsh would be better interactive modes. A node repl.os ok, uses libreadline & has lots.of capabilities, but zx feels biased towards scripting, not am actual shell. I dont see why you think zx couldnt be…

One of the other responses mentioned Nushell, which is a direct substitute for PowerShell in a meaningful sense: an interactive shell, structured pipelines, formatting as the final step of a pipeline, etc... Anything else tends to be either a random bag of unrelated tools sticky-taped together, OR a heavyweight programming language. The equivalent of JavaScript or Python is C#, CS-Script, or F# Interactive. Those are…

I feel like ZX has these features already. Rather than choosing to believe there is a meaningful unbridgeable hard fast line, I think it's beneficial to consider case-by-case what features & capabilities are important & what enables smooth, light operation.

Node still isnt `perl -pie` level easy & hybrid, but again I think it's altogether pretty slick & simple with zx today.

The interactive repl doesnt look like a shell but it has quite advanced editing, comes out ahead in many ways (value previews). There's no ability to generate new autocompletion capabilities in the built in repl, but one could potentially yse an IDE and LSP with a repl. The potential for non-monolithic shells is interesting, that a shell might be separated into editor, engine, & plugins.

There is pretty ok pipeline handling via streams, which finally have decent & well embraced standards. https://github.com/google/zx/blob/main/docs/pipelines.md

Formatting as final step Im not as familiar with but it sounds like one could easily map or swizzle their stream output pretty easily. Particularly with better ndjson I think the potential here is high.

Overall I think there are distinctions, characterizations between shell and other languages, but it's less inherent to me; we simply havent spent much effort identifying what it is that makes operating the command line easy, flexible, and have even less work trying to port those ideas & riff off them. Even an early simple thin standard library like zx achieving so much success at becoming putty or glue, alike a shell, so quickly, indicates to me that it's worth doubting our long held certainty that these things are absolutely apart & different.

Re: Jeffrey Snower was originally demoted over PowerShell

#153
Interesting story. I have a love/hate relationship with Powershell. I was proficient in the CMD batch language, but decided to develop a set of SQL scripts in Powershell. With the object integration, it's a good enviornment for Windows; if I need to do anything in Windows, for example color-coded error output, PS does that for me.

The object-oriented .NET design did not work for me in preprocessing text files for those SQL queries. PS takes 15 minutes to do what Strawberry Perl (the Windows port of Perl) does in 3 seconds with a one-liner regex. Perl is a better choice for that kind of thing, I know, but the orders of magntiude difference in processing files line-by-line was surprising.

I've been contemplating migrating scripts to Python so that we would be environment agnostic, but it's not a priority. (Turns out a LInux cloud instance costs more than a Windows instance. Our company signed a huge deal with Microsoft and everything is being pushed in that direction now.)

Post reply on HN