Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#151

Post by pksebben » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:17 AM UTC

ekanes wrote: post #86

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My adhd has never made me more able than anyone, but has certainly been a detriment to myself and those around me. The best I can do is not hate myself for what I evidently can’t control, and continue working to lessen the damage it does. I mean, I was diagnosed because it’s a problem. Not because I have super powers. I think the idea of wearing it as a badge of pride is because that reflex is easier than be…

I agree that some people could choose to see the positive aspects of adhd because it's less painful, but it doesn't mean they are deluding themselves. As a startup founder I think adhd worked both for and against me. Hyperfocus, the ability to perceive constant emergencies as fun, mania, etc. Downsides were very real too; dropping out of college because it was too boring, not opening my mail on time, being late with…

for me, it's the lateral thinking that really comes in handy. I can catch weird bugs a lot quicker, and my tenancy to yak shave has led to a pretty awesome kit of tools for every occasion.

I've managed to fix a lot of the organizational problems with a multi pronged sleep / exercise / med regimen, too. All in all, I'd call it net positive.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#152

Post by photojosh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:20 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #54

djur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "neurodiversity" viewpoint here is that what we call "ADHD" is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and that it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired, but rather as a difference to be accommodated. That accommodation may or may not be via medication and therapy, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that the underlying neurological state is a diseased one. A good analo…

> and people don't tend to talk about it as one does a medical condition While I basically entirely agree with your comment, my partner (who is an optometrist here in Australia) would often point out to me that myopia is a big risk factor for retinal degeneration and detachment, open angle glaucoma, and cataracts at a young age. So while we definitely shouldn't treat mild myopia (like I, and likely you have) as some…

Fascinating. Seems to me that it would be a comorbidity with a common cause though, rather than the myopia being the causative factor?

My (somewhat loosely informed) intuition suggests to me that in the same way that not spending enough time exposing the eye to light outdoors increases the severity of myopia, it would likely be causative in those other degenerations. Use it or lose it!

Not that I know anyone who spent all of their childhood with nose in a book then graduated to a computer, cough... I say this having quite mild myopia, although I wear glasses still, can't stand a blurry world.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#153

Post by pksebben » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:23 AM UTC

chasd00 wrote: post #70

david38 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar. I don’t understand wearing it with pride. There is no pride in it. It’s not an accomplishment. When people do this, it looks like a pre-emotive cop-out. “I’m saying to everyone I have ADHD so that if something goes wrong, I have something to blame and can also blame you if you are the authority for not giving me a pass”.

I think you're right, over the last couple years i've noticed ADHD as becoming like a hobby mental disorder. Lot's of people claim it as like something to be proud of. If you really have ADHD then you know it's an absolute miserable experience and the right medication can change you're life. I wasn't properly diagnosed until my very early 30s and I bounced around different medicine until i found the right one and dos…

Do you not think it affords anything at all, though? I agree that being well medicated is essential, but it's not like it makes it go away; there are for sure still differences in how I think, and when harnessed properly through meds and routine, those differences are a boon.

It's not really a brag, but I'd rather be medicated and keep a routine than lose the things that make me different as a knowledge worker. I'm a more lateral thinker than my peers, and that comes in super handy, for example.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#154

Post by krono » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:24 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #119

djur wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "neurodiversity" viewpoint here is that what we call "ADHD" is part of the natural variation in how human brains work, and that it's a category error to think of it as a malfunction to be repaired, but rather as a difference to be accommodated. That accommodation may or may not be via medication and therapy, but that shouldn't necessarily mean that the underlying neurological state is a diseased one. A good analo…

But than the logical conclusion is there are no disorders only a failure to accommodate? If someone is psychotic and disconnected with reality are we just applying our neurotypical filter? Should we just accommodate people who hear voices?

A cost/benefit analysis is how we usually find these answers. It's a harsh truth.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#155

Post by photojosh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:24 AM UTC

faeriechangling wrote: post #72

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the authors life is not being impacted by his ADHD then he does not have ADHD. The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way. His attention deficit does not impact his life in a negative way, therefore it’s not a disorder. The author frankly does not know what he’s talking about. And, clinically, he does not have ADHD. I have a mood disorder (NPSLE). I am on permanent d…

Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and bein…

Agreed.

"There's too many kids being diagnosed with ADHD."

Um, just maybe those kids would really like to not be made to feel absolutely worthless in life because they have struggles with their attention that was previously written off as them being naughty or not trying hard enough?

Don't get me started on what a horrendous environment a school can be to someone who might just operate a little bit differently.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#156

Post by photojosh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:31 AM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #60

xattt wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it seems that “affected” is being taken at face value in the parent comment, and the nuances of the presence of the disorder are being ignored. Yes, many individuals with ADHD can cope without medication and may go on to live good-enough lives that might be the envy of others. However, there may be a lot of potential being left on the table staying untreated. So to say that someone clearly doesn’t have…

I did not say he never had ADHD. I’m saying he does not have it now. Do you understand the significance of that difference?

"The clinical diagnosis for a mental illness is that it impacts your life in a negative way."

While ADHD has a large part to play in causing mental illness, and is often misdiagnosed as bipolar, BPD, anxiety, etc, ADHD in itself it is not a mental illness, but a disability. I know this is somewhat a semantic debate, but it is important.

"If someone is managing their ADHD it doesn’t mean they don’t have it."

So someone who is managing their ADHD via medication doesn't have it? What about changing their occupation to one where intricate planning is no longer required of them, so they cease to be constantly failing?

Someone can have ADHD and have it impact their life to a much greater or lesser extent based purely on the life situation they are in.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#157

Post by photojosh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:36 AM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #57

hatware wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound like you're gatekeeping a disorder without understanding it. FWIW, the author definitely has ADD/ADHD based on their descriptions.

And it sounds like you’re diagnosing someone based off a blog post. By the way, don’t tell someone who is disabled and was hospitalized several times with a mood disorder that they’re gatekeeping a disorder. I can assure you, I know more than you do about mental illness, It’s genetics, and its environmental factors.

"By the way, don’t tell someone who is disabled and was hospitalized several times with a mood disorder that they’re gatekeeping a disorder."

Why not?

I'm not saying it's what you're doing here, but it's quite common for sufferers of a particular condition to gatekeep their labels and online communities.

I do it myself!

Typical example: "Everyone is a little bit ADHD." Um, sure... but I can 99% guarantee it is being said in bad faith to discredit actual suffering. GTFO!

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#158

Post by photojosh » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:43 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #116

michaelbrave wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main grip with having ADHD is why it's so damn hard to do simple things like open the mail or make a phone call, it's almost like needing a secretary to survive. Second gripe is how hard it is to get an appointment to get medication sorted. I've never felt judged or victimized for it, though I have felt personally lacking due to my struggles to get things done.

> I've never felt judged or victimized for it I wish I could say the same. Were you diagnosed as child or an adult? I was diagnosed as an adult, and the school system I grew up in was rather... unwilling... to accommodate my "personality" differences.

There's probably a nuance to be found here between the 2 parent posts... when a person is "judged or victimized"; is that for:

- the behaviour they've been exhibiting, or

- the actual label/diagnosis of ADHD

I feel like hirvi is talking about the former, in childhood years, whereas michael perhaps is about adult life and the latter?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#159

Post by kragen » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

scollet wrote: post #67

symlinkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

Adderall does not work on NT brains. They would be able to perform tasks regardless.

Adderall has been one of the most popular recreational drugs since the 01960s, despite causing multi-organ failure in common recreational doses, which are higher than the therapeutic doses. If it didn't work on neurotypical brains, it wouldn't be popular.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#160

Post by Dylan16807 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

hirvi74 wrote: post #134

atian wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DSM-5 defines a mental disorder as a syndrome that causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition. These disorders are also usually accompanied by significant distress that affects a person's work, school, and social relationships.

> causes significant disturbance in behavior, emotion, and cognition According to other people. What if I think my behavior or emotions are appropriate or justified? The people that are not like me get to tell me how I should be? Seems kind of sick to me. What about the opposite? Are the people that lack disturbances in behavior, emotion, and cognition really that much better off? Regardless, they are definitely acce…

So that might be the cynical motivation that some people have to care, but at its core ADHD makes it harder for someone to choose what to focus on, and that's quite objectively a bad feature.