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College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

americandreaming.substack.com

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Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#151

Post by shortstuffsushi »

asabjorn wrote: post #76
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

The key difference here is that he went to film school while you did computer science. The author says that for STEM college often seems of value, but for students without the skill or aptitude to pursue high-skill degrees that exit into a pool of job opportunities it is awash. If you are not already wealthy spending large sums of debt on a degree that won’t get you paid more is objectively luxury spending at the neg…

I agree that there is a large value difference in an (engineering) degree compared to an (arts) degree. I'm not sure how many people with the latter come out ahead value wise. I also don't think I would argue any value for higher level degrees or multiple degrees in most cases. For what it's worth, my parents were mostly broke at that point - I'm the oldest of five and my dad is a carpenter, this was during the 2009-2012 timeframe. I also was (co-)raising a newborn.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#152

Post by RAIN92 »

Ocerge wrote: post #39
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

I had the exact same experience at a state school in Texas (Computer Science, graduated 2012). Worked the whole time, paid off what I could, and ended up with ~15k in debt that I paid off within 2 years. I completely understand how college isn't for everyone (or even most people), but it worked perfectly for me. I was not exposed to any CS concepts until college, and probably would never have had this career were it…

I hold a CS degree in Europe, for free.

I definitely see your point and - as an european outsider - understand and agree with you. However, I think your perspective is strictly linked to the US experience. University should not only be a place to pursue a career, or at least they should not advise it as such. It's a formation experience in different aspects. Obviously, your perspective change when it's so financially demanding.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#153

Post by tastyfreeze »

paulpauper wrote: post #31
Saint_Genet wrote: post #19

Society as a whole would probably benefit from more trade schools, even for many jobs that are typically thought of as traditional white collar jobs. Though on the individual level it’d probably limit options and make it harder to switch careers.

tons of trade schools and trade jobs exist. the problem is the jobs are not that enticing.

I think part of the problem is the perception that trades don't pay well.

Trades median pay (salary.com):

* Plumber $59,698

* Carpenter $58,542

* Journeyman Welder $51,413

* Electrician $61,350

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#154

Post by shortstuffsushi »

drnonsense42 wrote: post #90
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

Getting a STEM degree at a state school and getting out as quickly as possible is arguably the smartest way to use college. Unfortunately, many 18 year olds and frankly many adults do not have the decision making skills to do this. Just because it’s technically possible to use the system beneficially doesn’t mean it’s working well.

For you and other comments that mention "you can do it but it's not ideal," you're probably right. There is definitely a "happy path" and a lot of paths that lead to huge debts w/o upside. I do see some value in the experience for people of that age, I think it's a good transition / stepping stone for a lot of people into adulthood, but it would probably be good if we made a point of better explaining what debt is before people get into it.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#155

Post by awillen »

the_only_law wrote: post #138
awillen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would push vocational schools like they did college. We are going to need thousands and thousands of nurses in the next several decades. They're well-paying jobs that aren't going to be automated away in our lifetimes (a lot of doctors, on the other hand, can probably be replaced by AI). We need nurses, not people with sociology degrees (I say this as someone with a sociology degree).

> We are going to need thousands and thousands of nurses in the next several decades. They're well-paying jobs that aren't going to be automated away in our lifetimes (a lot of doctors, on the other hand, can probably be replaced by AI). We need nurses, not people with sociology degrees (I say this as someone with a sociology degree). FWIW a lot of the nurses I know are desperate to get out. One person in particular…

Oh yeah, it's an incredibly taxing job, but part of the reason they're so overworked is because we're already short on nurses (and for obvious reasons many are incredibly burned out from the last couple of years). That's why the government should be promoting nursing training in order to get a pipeline of nurses going quickly.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#157

Post by awillen »

sct202 wrote: post #143
awillen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would push vocational schools like they did college. We are going to need thousands and thousands of nurses in the next several decades. They're well-paying jobs that aren't going to be automated away in our lifetimes (a lot of doctors, on the other hand, can probably be replaced by AI). We need nurses, not people with sociology degrees (I say this as someone with a sociology degree).

Just wanted to put it out there that there are multiple levels of nurses and each requires different levels of education, like a licensed practical nurse (LPN) needs a certificate and is the lowest paid, registered nurses (RN) is either an associates degree or bachelors degree these people are usually what people think a nurse is, and a nurse practitioner (NP) bachelors degree + graduate school.

That's one of the things that makes nursing so ideal as a profession - you can start as a CNA and move up, but even at that level you can do things like work as a home health care aide (of which we are going to need so, so many as folks want to age at home). You don't have to commit to education (and debt) in the same way that doctors do to attend medical school to see if it's a career for you.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#158

Post by bluedino »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #56
bluedino wrote: post #29

>> When I was 18, I thought I wanted to be a filmmaker. I developed a passion for it in high school, and went on to study film at university. I stopped right there.

The idea that almost any 18-year old can take on large amounts of unsecured debt to go to film school is the problem. Making the debt non-defaultable isn't the solution. It's eliminating the credit.

Plenty of students still get their parents to co-sign.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#159

Post by nullc »

the_only_law wrote: post #53
shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

If I had gone to college I might have ended up with a social life and probably wouldn’t have done much better/worse economically. I have this current theory that there are a lot of domain/industries even in software development are made much harder to get into for the “uneducated” because the companies tend to source less experienced employees exclusively through university hiring pipelines. Now I have no qualms abso…

> when schools were more interested in my high school disciplinary

lol what? Do high schools even have those records anymore a decade plus after the fact?

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#160

Post by ncmncm »

anonymoushn wrote: post #30
ncmncm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learn O(f(n)) notation and caches, and you're good to go. Judging by interviews, they don't teach the caches part in CS.

Is that about memoization, software fixed-size caches, physical caches on CPU dies, or caches that you can put in front of HTTP servers?

Yes. And many others.

If you want to do science of computation, halting problem, P?=?NP, lambda calculus, good. Those are legitimate to study, and to write papers about. But studying them does not prepare you to engineer systems.

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