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What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

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Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#151

Post by willnonya »

3qz wrote: post #53
alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

> modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude It’s slavery as a service

No post body was provided.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#152

Post by sandworm101 »

giantg2 wrote: post #65
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

>> A meatgrinder job is a job that pays more not because there are fewer people who can do it, but because there are fewer people that will. They have insanely high turnover, because some aspect of the job is so bad that the vast majority of people who try it don’t stay. Maybe it’s long hours that never stop or maybe it’s constant on-call work. Maybe it’s an insane, stress-intensive workload you can’t begin to keep u…

In the case of LEOs or prosecutors, I think many give up the search for truth and give in to the us-vs-them mentality. The cognitive dissonance and pressure of group dynamics make it almost a certainty. There is huge power in law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion. Yes, some parts of the job have to be strict for safety purposes. There are many other parts that don't. I've had prosecutors and police know that o…

>> our rights were violated as part of a citation. >> unless there was substantial monetary damages

I take it that this was not a criminal prosecution that might result in actual jail time. Was it a minor traffic offense? Part of the "thick skin" i mentioned above is a pragmatism re the "rights" of individuals in minor cases. Highschool teaches us that every trial is the same, that beyond-reasonable-doubt, perjury and and all the rights apply to everyone in ever case. The reality is that absolute respect for such things is a limited resource. Impeach every cop with less-than-perfect testimony in a traffic case and you won't have any cops left to testify in murder cases. Give every drunk driving charge a full jury trial and the economy would stop as every able body would spend more time sitting in the jury box than working. Functioning within the system means working within those realities. Ideology dies a quick death when faced with the staggering number of charges brought each day.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#153

Post by dumpsterlid »

unapproved4lyfe wrote: post #67
woodruffw wrote: post #30

This was a great read. I think the true value of money is one of HN's biggest bubbles: the average person on here (but not all of us!) jumped right from their undergraduate career to making a six-figure salary in a city with lavish public amenities (by American standards). It's very easy to forget that the average American salary is less than half of that, and even that hides the number of people living well below th…

You stated it in terms of social privilege ("jumped right from their undergraduate career to making a six-figure salary in a city...") but it's just as well intellectual privilege. I have a blue collar background and high school criminal career that looks like any poor person buying $20 scratchers, but after four years working in software I was a 22 year-old making six figures also. It makes it harder to feel sympath…

"It makes it harder to feel sympathy for those struggling: Indeed, repeatedly making wrong decisions has poor outcomes. At 18 it was pretty obvious that in the most basic sense, code = money."

It's not the poverty that makes it hard to relate, it's that they seem to almost live by instinct and emotion. I wish them well but don't know what's wrong in their heads or have the slightest idea of how to durably improve their lot, apart from setting an example of worldly rationality (aye, there's the rub). "

You have a LOT of work to do on emotional intelligence and having empathy for others bud. I am sure you worked really hard to get where you are and that you are also an intelligent person, but you obviously have some massive blindspots about how cruel society is and about how your own struggle through life has stunted your capacity to feel empathy for others.

Even if you were right and other people were struggling because they kept making wrong decisions when they simply could have made the right decisions, do you want to live in a society that treats these people with an intense degree of cruelty? What is the point of you being rewarded for making all the right choices when all around you people who aren't as smart or hard working as you are being utterly ground to pieces by the society you live in? Sure if you develop a sense of distance from the suffering of those people I suppose you can sleep good at night but that is doing a damage to your soul (in a vague meaning here, not implying religion necessarily) by numbing your capacity to connect with the rest of humanity.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#154

Post by willnonya »

silexia wrote: post #82
throw1234651234 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the best post in this thread. This is all very much true. One more thing that most Americans don't admit is that people mostly work jobs they have started out in. When I was in shitty jobs, people started out and stayed there. As I move up, I notice that people also started out and stayed there. Anecdotally, the US has much less mobility than what is commonly believed. Anyway, I went off topic - don't want to…

The solution here is to open up the free markets again. This means: -Right to repair -Abolish the patent system and non competes -Drop the IRS and let the government simply print money it needs... This eliminates all tax loopholes and special treatment. Perfectly fair wealth tax.

the only thing youbgot right in that comment ia the right to repair. reform the patent system, revamp the irs but letting the givernment print the moneybit wants to spemd is the era we live in now. when that increase in the money supply grows faster than the economy its called inflation...

The proper path is to reduce rhe size and scope of governwmnt so that it needs toboukl less of the existing money supply out of the economy though taxes.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#155

Post by willnonya »

rajin444 wrote: post #100
silexia wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution here is to open up the free markets again. This means: -Right to repair -Abolish the patent system and non competes -Drop the IRS and let the government simply print money it needs... This eliminates all tax loopholes and special treatment. Perfectly fair wealth tax.

No matter what system we propose it can’t handle human greed and abuses of power. Bad actors ruin everything. We need to figure out how to build high trust societies with a shared culture. There’s a reason large corporations are pushing diversity so hard - it keeps abuses like those described above possible.

That's only really true when you have a powerful entity like the government stifling competition in favor of their preferred actors and cronies.

True competition allows people to choose the actors they want, good or bad.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#156

Post by dumpsterlid »

TrackerFF wrote: post #16

Worked a wide variety of low-skill, low-pay temp jobs during college. Lots of the people I worked with there were juggling multiple gigs, and were sort of locked into that system of work. By the time I graduated, it was mostly temp firms that handled the recruitment - and FYI, they absolutely follow the "hire fast, fire fast" mantra. So while you could land work the next day, you could just as easily get fired from t…

"And the worst part? These gigs do next to nothing for your resume. I worked with college graduates stuck in such positions, graduates with decent and hard degrees. One year turns into two, two into three, three into five...and before they know it, they've worked these shitty gigs long enough that their degrees start to lose value. But you gotta pay rent each and every month, so what can you do?"

Its not only this, its also the fact that the way your employer abuses you begins to over time subconsciously convince you that this is normal and that you deserve this kind of treatment. This is one of the great tragedies of how unnecessarily cruel modern work is in the US for most people, it forms people into the smallest version of themselves possible. This has happened to me and countless people I have known and you can say "well just snap out of it, make your life better" but when you face a job that grinds you down everyday that isn't necessarily a psychological regime a lot of people can escape. It is similar (but not equivalent, I am not trying to down play abuse here) to the way that from the outside it looks absurd how people get trapped in abusive relationships with partners.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#157

Post by newbamboo »

mrjangles wrote: post #83
alexfromapex wrote: post #31

I think this article starts to touch on a topic area I don't hear much about but am extremely frustrated by: how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude. In the "When They Know They've Got You" section, they mention the real challenges of not being able to obtain a lawyer if things truly aren't fair. The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. Insurance is a scam in…

>how modern work for a lot of jobs has become de facto indentured servitude...The average worker can't afford anything without taking on debt. For people from other countries wondering about the veracity of these claims, let's take an example: The typical shitty job everyone on here complains about is working at an amazon warehouse. This is a job people with no skills take on. They pay 15 USD an hour. In other curren…

Yes. Jeff Bezos is an unsung hero and has done more to help the poor than anyone. Without him, there would be massive unemployment and an underclass riddled with social problems like opiate addiction and spousal abuse.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#158

Post by hutzlibu »

User23 wrote: post #7
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

>> A meatgrinder job is a job that pays more not because there are fewer people who can do it, but because there are fewer people that will. They have insanely high turnover, because some aspect of the job is so bad that the vast majority of people who try it don’t stay. Maybe it’s long hours that never stop or maybe it’s constant on-call work. Maybe it’s an insane, stress-intensive workload you can’t begin to keep u…

> Pediatric oncology. That job must be nightmarish for anyone who isn’t a full-blown sociopath. I’m not a particularly empathetic person and I couldn’t start that job let alone stay in it for years. Edit: > One of the attractions of pediatrics is, surprisingly enough… This is the opposite of surprising. I imagine one of the appeals of pediatrics is significantly fewer of your patients die. That’s why pediatric oncolo…

"That job must be nightmarish for anyone who isn’t a full-blown sociopath."

Why do you have to be a sociopath, if you have the guts to help people, who need help? Even or especially if they are children? Sociopaths would do it for the money and prestige. A doctor with empathy mainly to save those that can be saved and ease the suffering of those that cannot. No need to insult or stigmatize them, because they can do, what you cannot imagine.

Re: What does “shitty job” mean in the low-skill, low-pay world?

#160

Post by iamdbtoo »

rnikander wrote: post #124
abxytg wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynically untrue. Amazon is not even close to bottom of the barrel. And it's clear you haven't paid market rent in a major city since you bought that starter home back in the 90s - 42k is a joke when your rent is close to $2500 and you get no benefits.

So rent a room and/or don’t live in the best part of the city. That’s what I did near Boston a few years ago. My rent was well under $1000. Do people think they’re entitled to private apartments in the most expensive cities in the world?

Yeah, that's kind of how this country markets itself. Being able to afford a home and a family on a regular worker's pay is literally part of "The American Dream."
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