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Hello V-Lang

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Re: Hello V-Lang

#151

Post by ksec »

Tozen wrote: post #142
ksec wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unless Vlang comes up Yes that is why I am surprised it is still on the front page. Normally anything to do with Vlang get flagged within a few hours on HN.

Exactly. Yet and for example, Zig and Nim articles are posted at will without issue. Recently, Zig related ones have been very numerous, as if people had invested stock into it. In contrast, Vlang related ones often get flagged for unknown reasons. Quite strange. Where is the fairness?

Well, Zig hasn't been numerous. If you do a search on Rust and Zig you will see Rust submission is something like 10-20:1 ratio with headline going at 3-5:1 within one month period. But yes zig is getting some traction on HN. (I have been tracking it ever since Rust people complain about the number of Zig submissions. )

And HN has a hatred for Vlang because arguably it start off in the wrong foot with too many over promising features. I thought we should give Vlang some benefits of doubt. Instead HN simply shoot down all Vlang submission. And it only takes a few people flagging it for it to disappeared from the front page. Yes I dont think it is fair. I wish we can all submit some obscure, unknown programming language to the front page. Unfortunately I am not sure what the solution to that would be, may be email @dang about it?

Re: Hello V-Lang

#152

Post by kgeist »

amedvednikov wrote: post #129
kgeist wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else do you use besides it?

autofree (compile time frees) it's on the website and in the video I referenced here

But you said it's unfinished and hidden behind a flag. And it's been like that for several years.

I found this in the docs:

>Autofree is still WIP. Until it stabilises and becomes the default, please compile your long running processes with -gc boehm, which will use the Boehm-Demers-Weiser conservative garbage collector

Re: Hello V-Lang

#153

Post by anecd0te »

saghm wrote: post #112
anecd0te wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed that there was a English language barrier from the original author that made the mistake of present versus future tense for the feature list. When combined with a lack of feature tracking that looked to people like big claims were made without substance, but to me it always felt like everything in V was "work in progress." They definitely have a hacker mindset to get the minimum working examples through and…

I've never been able to quite understand what was going on with V (and the associated messenger client Volt written in it), but it seems to be something a bit more complicated than just a language barrier. I made a habit of checking the Volt website for a while out of interest in using the project, and it was somewhat surreal how fast the documented timeline would change. There was a super specific timeline in terms…

> There was a super specific timeline in terms of what month features would land out as far as 2-3 years (e.g. "support for $os in $current_year + 2, open source in $current_year + 3), and but then as the months went by, the items on the timeline would not land, and the timeline would get revised pushing things out with no announcement of any sort.

That just strikes me as youth and inexperience

Re: Hello V-Lang

#154

Post by _andrei_ »

coldtea wrote: post #17
_andrei_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's people that have what it takes to build something like V, and then there's the rest of us, that spend our time ranting online.

And there are also people who have built even harder projects than V, but can still criticize projects with issues and rant with the best of them! The absolute dichotomy being "doers" and "criticizers" is false. Linus could criticize things just fine.

Doers can of course criticize, but serious devs won't bash a new and unfinished language, just because the author of the project had the audacity to promise something "so unrealistic".

Healthy people saw V, maybe read about it, saw the great promises, and thought "Ha, that sounds unlikely, but it's not a bad idea, it would be insane if this worked! Shoot for the stars, aim for the moon.".

For others, the promises were outrageous and anything remotely close to them "impossible". I don't get why it got personal for some of us, and it's stupid how involved people were over the years (hey Xe, you're so skilled, why waste your energy) into bashing this random project.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#155

Post by Normille »

amedvednikov wrote: post #117
Normille wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for a start there's the "Translating DOOM from C to V and building it in 0.7 seconds" which is still on your front page. In spite of being a 'WIP' for as long as I can remember. Then there's; vweb, vorum, volt and ved [all of which feature prominently on the front page too] which have been little more than alpha quality proofs of concept for a similarly long time. Don't get me wrong; I was actually interested i…

vweb, volt, and ved are not a "little more than alpha" yes, the os is being developed in V, and it can already run bash, GCC, G++, and Doom. https://github.com/vlang/vinix the person working on it, is an osdev, and not a compiler developer

OK. In the interests of fairness, I'll take another look at V. Because I did like the look of it when I dabbled a few years back. I found it a bit like Go but without the annoying boiler-plate `if err != nil...` everywhere, it did seem to compile and run quickly and I did remark at the time that it had some of the most helpful error messages I'd found in any programming language.

I'm not a professional coder though. I only knock together hacky stuff for my own purposes. So I have to bow to the superior collective opinion on HN when it comes to the more esoteric qualities of any language, such as its memory handling, efficiency, etc.

So I am a long way from being the 'Hater' half the comments seem to suggest. Although the younger generation are hypersensitive these days that just disagreeing with someone else's opinion is enough to have you accused of 'hate crime'.

PS: I've also been dabbling with Crystal, which has for me the nicest syntax out of the Go / V / Crystal triumvirate that I keep drifting between, in my quest for the "One True Language to Rule Them All" that I can learn relatively easily and use for my personal hacking needs. Unfortunately Crystal suffers from a lack of tooling and some of the most unhelpful error messaging I've come across.

So there you go. That was some love for V.... or was it a 'hate crime' against Crystal? It's so hard to not cause offence, these days.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#156

Post by amedvednikov »

kgeist wrote: post #152
amedvednikov wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

autofree (compile time frees) it's on the website and in the video I referenced here

But you said it's unfinished and hidden behind a flag. And it's been like that for several years. I found this in the docs: >Autofree is still WIP. Until it stabilises and becomes the default, please compile your long running processes with -gc boehm, which will use the Boehm-Demers-Weiser conservative garbage collector

gc is also behind the flag

so why do you pick one over the other?

the language is still at 0.2

Re: Hello V-Lang

#157

Post by amedvednikov »

Normille wrote: post #155
amedvednikov wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vweb, volt, and ved are not a "little more than alpha" yes, the os is being developed in V, and it can already run bash, GCC, G++, and Doom. https://github.com/vlang/vinix the person working on it, is an osdev, and not a compiler developer

OK. In the interests of fairness, I'll take another look at V. Because I did like the look of it when I dabbled a few years back. I found it a bit like Go but without the annoying boiler-plate `if err != nil...` everywhere, it did seem to compile and run quickly and I did remark at the time that it had some of the most helpful error messages I'd found in any programming language. I'm not a professional coder though.…

> So I have to bow to the superior collective opinion on HN

You shouldn't do that. There's a lot of misinformation regarding V on this site.

Always best to try things yourself, with V it's very fast and simple.

Re: Hello V-Lang

#158

Post by amedvednikov »

Tozen wrote: post #145
sergiotapia wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW bro I enjoy that you are building something so ambitious and making progress despite the unwarranted hate. I have no idea why you bring out so many visceral trolls. Can someone share why this guy and vlang are so hated? It seems like he is ironing out the kinks even years after the hate keeps piling on. He keeps this up he's going to win.

It is very impressive that the creator of Vlang can come here to face the critics, trolls, and bashers. That tells you something positive about his character and fortitude. What is also very interesting, is that when various trolls make their derogatory claims or bash on his creation, he responds to them with facts and references. Many of them never respond back and run away.

Thanks for your support :)

Re: Hello V-Lang

#159

Post by bheadmaster »

ylluminate wrote: post #100
bheadmaster wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A toy language is a term for a computer programming language that is not considered to fulfill the robustness or completeness requirement of a computer programming language.

Then by this definition and by example of what has been done with V so far, it's definitely no "toy language."

I don't think V has proven its robustness or completeness. One thing that could change my mind is if one of the applications got completed and was actually usable.

For example, I'm really interested in the Volt thingy - a lightweight, multiprotocol chat application:

    https://volt-app.com/
But if you open the website, you can see that there is no Linux or Windows support, and most protocols are not yet implemented. I've searched for other projects written in V, and haven't found a single completed project.
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