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5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

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Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#151

Post by throwaway_1928 »

bennysomething wrote: post #148
throwaway_1928 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It absolutely matters. If Jeff Bezos says he has invented a new operating system and upon a little digging it is discovered that he just tweaked and renamed Linux, then he should and will be called out, and it will hurt his reputation. The problem is not with using knowledge to your benefit, that is why it is there. The problem is with plagiarism, misrepresentation and intellectual dishonesty.

So you are certain that you know who invented this and that it was "appropriated"? (Whatever appropriated means)

I am not even certain who invented Linux (whatever "invented" means). Maybe it was Bezos all along.

/s

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#152

Post by leobg »

thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

You say “their technique” and “this new tool”. For someone who hasn’t read Hof and Nestor, could you point to any resources explaining the specific techniques you are referring to? If I go down the Google/YT rabbit hole, I fear I’ll be confronted with hundreds of such techniques and just get utterly confused. Thank you.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#153

Post by rramadass »

mysterypie wrote: post #106

> not necessarily meant to replace exercise I'm hoping someone can answer a question to which I've never heard a really satisfactory answer: Why does human health benefit from exercise whereas any kind of simple machine wears out with exercise? For example, doing a hundred stretches per day improves my health whereas stretching an elastic band 100 times per day will cause it to lose elasticity and soon destroy it. So…

It is hard to give a short answer to your question but you will find the following books helpful (check reviews on Amazon and elsewhere on the Web);

1) Body by Science: A Research Based Program for Strength Training, Body building, and Complete Fitness in 12 Minutes a Week by John Little and Doug McGuff.

2) The Energy of Life: The Science of What Makes Our Minds and Bodies Work by Guy Brown.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#154

Post by VMtest »

thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

I also watched Wim Hof on youtube during the pandemic, he even made a video regarding Covid at that time

Well, I never really got Covid myself, I feel good knowing your recovery experience with that method

Now, I should start using Wim Hof or similar method already

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#155

Post by endymi0n »

himyogi wrote: post #113
thenerdhead wrote: post #73

After reading Wim Hof and James Nestor a couple years ago during the pandemic, I used their techniques in full while battling long Covid. I had a blood pressure monitor and pulse oximeter on my bedside table that I would experiment with doing these various techniques and seeing my heart rate go down, my blood pressure go down, my anxiety would disappear, lung/chest inflammation would settle, and even oxygen levels in…

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, maybe. As in: sure, a lot of breathing techniques and sometimes even useful natural remedies are some of the oldest recorded ones if they are coming from "the east", but in the end that corpus of wisdom is mostly a spaghetti mess of helpful and harmful techniques that is really hard to disentangle from cultism, oogie-boogie and autocratic belief systems.

There's no shortage of stupidity in eastern "wisdom":

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/magazine/how-yoga-can-wre... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6790910/

I for one prefer the clean extraction (or parallel invention/construction, whatever your take on that is) of single techniques based on double-blind evidence instead of being told that I can't just do breathing exercises properly without also listening to the incoherent ramblings of a random guru:

https://www.wimhofmethod.com/science

Yep, the Wim Hof method was original research too, but that guy basically just said: I tried some things, these seem to work, here's the proof, take it or leave it. Goes on to break some records and just STFU's otherwise.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#156

Post by throwaway_1928 »

endymi0n wrote: post #155
himyogi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, maybe. As in: sure, a lot of breathing techniques and sometimes even useful natural remedies are some of the oldest recorded ones if they are coming from "the east", but in the end that corpus of wisdom is mostly a spaghetti mess of helpful and harmful techniques that is really hard to disentangle from cultism, oogie-boogie and autocratic belief systems. There's no shortage of stupidity in eastern "wisdom": htt…

You cite an NYT article "How Yoga Can Wreck Your Body". That is like citing an article "How You Can Hurt Yourself With A Kitchen Knife" to argue how the culinary arts are dangerous gobbledygook.

Yes, these practices can hurt you if you don't do them properly.

And there is nothing wrong with performing or following original research, as long as you credit the work upon which you build.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#157

Post by brigandish »

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #145
brigandish wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux has a licence and relies on copyright law. If yogic breathing techniques did have a licence, the best you could hope for would be an MIT/BSD licence. I don't see how that advances your view.

You're missing the point. Even if Linux were not subject to a license, a person claiming to have invented an operating system who in reality simply forked Linux without giving appropriate credit would be considered a plagiarist. And to expect a sagacious progenitor of a millennia-old practice like Pranayama to have considered modern-day legal protections is absurd.

> And to expect a sagacious progenitor of a millennia-old practice like Pranayama to have considered modern-day legal protections is absurd.

Yes, reductio ad absurdum was the point.

> Even if Linux were not subject to a license, a person claiming to have invented an operating system who in reality simply forked Linux without giving appropriate credit would be considered a plagiarist.

To consider "modern-day legal protections is absurd" but forking an operating system is what? I'd go for special pleading.

But to the point. Plagiarism is important in academic circles, it is not for breathing techniques, whether given by yogis or not. *Please show me why Patanjali would care, if he would not then why should anyone else?*

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#159

Post by throwaway_1928 »

brigandish wrote: post #157
throwaway_1928 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. Even if Linux were not subject to a license, a person claiming to have invented an operating system who in reality simply forked Linux without giving appropriate credit would be considered a plagiarist. And to expect a sagacious progenitor of a millennia-old practice like Pranayama to have considered modern-day legal protections is absurd.

> And to expect a sagacious progenitor of a millennia-old practice like Pranayama to have considered modern-day legal protections is absurd. Yes, reductio ad absurdum was the point. > Even if Linux were not subject to a license, a person claiming to have invented an operating system who in reality simply forked Linux without giving appropriate credit would be considered a plagiarist. To consider "modern-day legal pro…

No, plagiarism is important in every circle, not just academic circles.

If you copy your colleague's work at your FAANG job and claim it as your own, you will be in trouble.

If a contemporary politician claims he has come up with this novel idea where decisions can be made with "majority vote", he will be mocked out of the room.

And so on.

Re: 5-min breathing workout lowers blood pressure as much as exercise, drugs (2021)

#160

Post by mellavora »

brigandish wrote: post #125
himyogi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It doesn't matter one iota if someone claims it as their own, what matters is the benefit it brings. Do you think Patanjali (or whomever) would be protective of their techniques and trademark it, patent it, and extract wealth for it? If they don't care then neither should anyone else, and perhaps this will help the techniques spread further, which I'm sure Patanjali et al again, would not be against.

no, it does matter. Because once someone has appropriated it, they can block access to the original material.

Theft of the commons is one of the enduring themes of capitalism.

Could be soft-blocks, i.e. burying links to the original source so no-one finds it, reducing the number of teachers or the ability of those teachers to make a living, etc.

Could be harder blocks; say the new company patents it. Files takedown notices against alternative presentations. Yes, you could fight them on "prior art", but now you have a legal fight as well as the difficulties of promoting the technique.

And while I'll take your word for it that Patanjali et al don't mind one group spreading their techniques farther, are we so sure that Patanjali et al would feel about that one group claiming ownership and only allowing that group to access it? Perhaps Patanjali didn't try to trademark/patent (or the equivalent) their techniques because they were morally opposed to this?

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