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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

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Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#151

Post by aidenn0 »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

I get the sense that it's cyclical. In rock music, there was the stadium rock of the 80s that gave way to more punk influenced music in the early 90s, which became fairly commercial and same-y by the time the 00s arrived.

There's probably already some movement in film that is new and different that most people don't know about, but 20 years ago everybody will claim to have already been into "back in '22."

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#152

Post by the_af »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

> "they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies"

This in particular. I don't mind the odd superhero movie, but they seem wildly overrepresented in big budget movies.

It feels it's also frequently a retelling of Spiderman or Batman. I don't think I can stand another Spidey or Batman origin story, or another "...and the next villain is hinted at to be the Joker!". Occasionally there's a "superhero team" (usually the Avengers, but sometimes a more obscure team) or some other lone hero. Even with less known superheroes, the story beats and plot structure is always a familiar one.

I'm sure there are exceptions, and I'm sure my mind is playing tricks on me (as I get older, I tend to consider a "recent reboot" something that actually happened 10 years ago!), but still...

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#153

Post by gigaflop »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

"These Days" in particular('Rona Season), I feel like a lot is/has been getting produced to keep up with increased demand. More people spending time indoors, means more people sitting on the couch looking for things to watch.

From this, I think it's safe to assume that the lowest common denominator is growing fastest. Why put in original thought when you can use an internal plot-point checklist or AI/ML to guess at what the focus groups would say anyways?

It's not like the big production companies wouldn't move towards that model on their own.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#154

Post by the_af »

yoz-y wrote: post #145
lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

My theory is that: You make a massively appealing thing by removing what people don’t like, not by adding something they do. The truly mass market media is devoid of substance because of that. Hence why I feel that the most interesting things are those which are polarizing.

> "Hence why I feel that the most interesting things are those which are polarizing."

I strongly agree with this. To me it's impossible for something characterful and powerful not to generate equally strong dislikes. The only way absolutely everyone will like a movie is if it's so bland and inoffensive it cannot motivate anyone enough to dislike it.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#155

Post by andrewclunn »

When reviews became numerical and used to recommend content via algorithms, was it any wonder they became as broken as any other form of rating online? Incentives and emergence shape everything. Want a good critic? Find someone (an individual) with tastes similar to yours. The aggregate is always a distorted mess of corrupt business practices, incompetent hot takes, and people you disagree with mucking up the waters. That there is or was ever "critical consensus" should be the least reassuring thing.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#156

Post by oehpr »

pessimizer wrote: post #140

I think the numbers are just a distraction. What the critics like is informed by the desire to maintain access to the studios and the quality of the goodies they've been given (access journalism/junket whores), and what the public likes is informed by the size of the marketing spend and what the critics have already written before they saw the film. A better proxy for public sentiment would be viewer scores from test…

my... I see you have adopted an appropriate name.

By this logic I could just spend all my budget on telling the public a movie is great, then show them a grey rectangle for 2 hours and get rave reviews.

If this is not the case, then to what degree is it one or the other? Where would you put your ratios?

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#157

Post by dogleash »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

>They don't like being challenged by anything.

"Challenging" is such a bullshit term. It implies there's something meaty for your brain to chew on, but 9/10 times it's a pretentious way to write off people who don't like hamfisted righteousness that fits squarely into run-of-the-mill positions and ideas that are Hollywood-safe.

Those movies are pablum just as much as marvel franchises or 90 minutes of fart and dick jokes.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#158

Post by alistairSH »

sjtindell wrote: post #128
shantnutiwari wrote: post #26

Were they ever in sync? I've always seen critics as a "negative recommendation" -- if a critic recommends a movie, it's usually bad and vice versa (and like all rules there notable exceptions like Thor Ragnarok, which both critics and normal people loved). And this is true not just in movies but books as well. Critics in both domains love the "ooh lala, fancy pancy hard to understand arty farty" book/movie that doesn…

That doesn't ring true to me at all. In aggregate, the opinions of professional critics always push me towards better movies or tv shows. Go watch some of the best rated movies of the year on Rotten Tomatoes by critics, then the best rated by users. It's immediately clear the critics picks are not just better but leaps and bounds better. I have the same experience with restaurants. What my friends say is their favori…

What my friends say is their favorite restaurant is usually something like a local hole in the wall taco place that makes amazing carne asada. That's not bad, and it's great for that one person or that one dish/experience. But generally a pick from the Michelin guidebook is going to be a completely different experience start to finish, down to the smallest details. It's objectively better.

Continuing this thought... There's also nothing inherently wrong or bad about the local diner (or the generic recipe blockbuster movie). They fill a niche. People like easy comfort food and they like relatively mindless entertainment. But, they also enjoy a fancy meal that is also an experience and movies that challenge their notions about the world and make them think.

I enjoy a Michelin meal. I wouldn't want one every day - I'd be both bankrupt and become jaded to the experience. Same with movies. Most of the time, I'm ok with another MCU/Avengers spin-off, but sometimes I want Memento or Hunger.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#159

Post by jknecht »

lamontcg wrote: post #131

I feel like the mass of people are ossifying around the familiar. People like re-watching the same stuff that they've already watched, they're comfortable these days watching reboots of the same superhero movies. They like big budgets and flashy special effects. They don't like being challenged by anything. Even when it comes to something like online forums, something like reddit is mostly a wasteland of the same 50…

I think it has always been this way. I worked in a video rental store in the 90's, and every movie was either a military story (Vietnam: bad, Russians: bad, current US military: good), courtroom drama, divorce drama, or high school / college comedy. A few decent psychological thrillers and campy horror flicks too. Basically a never-ending stream of the same movie with different actors. Hollywood has never been accused of being creative or daring.

At least in the 90's, most movies were around 90 minutes. Nowadays, if it's less than 2.5 hours, it's a minor miracle.

All that said, I'm still a sucker for mindless entertainment. Even if movie night has become a bladder endurance contest.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#160

Post by the_af »

chrismeller wrote: post #143
chrismeller wrote: post #28

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them. My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement… Any movie that does well wit…

To cover the comments, particularly the guy whose comment is dead, yes, raunchy comedies. Also 90% of the Blockbuster movies. Perhaps I’d have done better if I said I don’t like being preached at. For an example, Juno: Yes, I get it, unwed mothers are bad. Should I watch a Lifetime special about it just so I can cry about how horrible things are?

The message you got from "Juno" is "unwed mothers are bad"?

Wow.

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