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Is my advice too mercenary?

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Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#151

Post by _aavaa_ »

randrews wrote: post #63

One of the wisest pieces of career advice I ever heard was "you cannot change an organization by leaving it." It works both ways: if you're leaving in hopes that it'll be a wake-up call to management that a valuable person left, then it probably won't be. And, if you leave your workplace to improve your own life, you've also necessarily chosen not to try and improve the workplace. Leaving means giving up on trying to…

Depends on the scenario. I know personally of several examples where key people who had little say in a company, but were key technical roles, simply resigned. Resigned publicly, and drained other talent with them. First it was the better talent who had the most options, and then it was everyone else, like rats off a sinking ship.

This reminds me of Exit, Voice, and Loyalty by Albert Hirshchman [0]. The gist is that you have two options Voice or Exit. Voice means staying and fighting for things to change. It having any effect is predicated on the ability to Exit, to opt out of the situation and leave. Staying and fighting means you may push for change. But quitting and bringing others with you means that you may force change.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit%2C_Voice%2C_and_Loyalty

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#152

Post by replygirl »

thegrimmest wrote: post #138
replygirl wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because previously all social services, including police and fire safety, were privatized, and were only taken over by the state when it became clear there wasn't enough economic incentive to keep such services running without the operators doing stuff like roughing people up, burning down buildings, etc. But everyone decomposes as they age, and people fear illness and death enough that you can charge them however mu…

> all social services, including police and fire safety, were privatized I think enforcing the law has been a government function from the times the first laws were laid down. Fire services were a private function, and this actually works fine in sparsely populated areas where fires are not likely to spread in temperate climates. The only reason fire services are public is because of the inherent risk to everyone tha…

covid vaccines?

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#153

Post by joe_the_user »

rmason wrote: post #91

There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company. Here in Michigan there were a number of small towns where a single employer would dominate. If the town needed something, like a baseball park the owner would simply write a check. If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. When there were tough economic times…

If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check.

Not that this didn't happen. But I should add that it wasn't any benevolent plan on the part of the owners that made things that way. It was a combination of the presence of New Deal, Unions, the threat of so-called-communism, etc and the lack of hyperdeveloped capital and commodity markets, that pushed things in that direction from the 1930s to the 1970s. And then what you describe pushed things the other way.

The point is that same owner probably supported all the innovations, because they were about the owner having more flexibility. And by the token, you can't get back to this point, probably not ever but certainly not without outside intervention.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#154

Post by nobody9999 »

replygirl wrote: post #121
nobody9999 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I haven't had insurance for five years because the (major, national) providers who cover what I need aren't available on my state's marketplace (NY). As someone who purchases insurance from the NY marketplace, that hasn't been my experience. Initially, I had a plan from one of those (Anthem/BCBS), which provided pretty good coverage because they increased my premiums by more than 50%. Now I have a local (New York St…

> As someone who purchases insurance from the NY marketplace, that just isn't true. So have I, and I stopped purchasing insurance because I cannot find the coverage I want. I need a specific variant of a certain operation which is only performed by a few surgeons in the country, and the one surgeon in New York who offers it only takes Aetna for that operation. Aetna reentered marketplaces starting 2022, but I'm movin…

>So have I, and I stopped purchasing insurance because I cannot find the coverage I want. I need a specific variant of a certain operation which is only performed by a few surgeons in the country, and the one surgeon in New York who offers it only takes Aetna for that operation. Aetna reentered marketplaces starting 2022, but I'm moving and the operation has a year-plus waitlist, so I'm SOL. It has made a ton of sense for me to have no insurance because I'm fairly young and in fantastic health, making it cheaper to just pay out-of-pocket for primary care once or twice a year.

That seems reasonable. As I said, "my use case isn't yours and I'm sure you make decisions that are best for you."

>Please don't call people liars.

My intent wasn't to call you (or anyone else) a liar. My apologies if you felt I was attacking you. Nothing could be further from the truth. I've edited my comment to explicitly reflect that.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#155

Post by dragonwriter »

kube-system wrote: post #19
AYBABTME wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming this is by design to keep the US population "on their toes" and at work doing productive things. Otherwise why would it be tied to employment?

Health insurance is "tied to employment" because of wage controls that were implemented in WWII. Employers still had trouble hiring people, and because they were prohibited from raising wages, they had to find other ways to attract people: benefits. Health insurance then became a popular benefit. Also, note that you can buy your own health insurance in the US. You are not required to use health insurance provided by…

> Health insurance is "tied to employment" because of wage controls that were implemented in WWII.

If that was the only or even dominant reason, then the removal of those controls in 1945 would have seen that tie rapidly unravel, instead, health care has become more, not less, tied to employment since the end of that policy, reinforced by deliberate policy choices like tax policy and explicit mandates.

The historical reason a thing first became common and the reason the thing is still common are often not all the same.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#156

Post by lotsofpulp »

kaesar14 wrote: post #135
lotsofpulp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health insurance is not tied to employment status. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and buy an equivalent BCBS or Kaiser or whatever gold/silver/bronze insurance. Unless you are in a particularly shitty state. What employers do have is the ability to sell you health insurance with pre tax dollars, which is also available to self employed individuals. But the people who are screwed are those who are employed by employe…

This just feels like a ‘well ackshually’ retort to health insurance being tied to employment. This is an extra added expense and often times the barebones insurance is garbage with high deductibles and out of pocket maximums.

How is it an “extra added expense”? Just because you do not pay for 50% of the premium out of your own pocket directly does not mean you are not paying implicitly. Your employer is obviously counting it in the total cost of employing you, and the figure is given to you in box 12 code DD on your W-2.

You can also buy a platinum level BCBS health plan yourself, without an employer, and get the same low deductible and low oop max.

https://www.healthcare.gov/choose-a-plan/plans-categories/

It is evident then that health insurance is NOT tied to employment. Buying it with pre tax dollars is tied to the type of employer you have.

NJ has a very nice pdf where you can basically see how much your insurance will cost based on your age and level do coverage you want:

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#157

Post by thegrimmest »

replygirl wrote: post #152
thegrimmest wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all social services, including police and fire safety, were privatized I think enforcing the law has been a government function from the times the first laws were laid down. Fire services were a private function, and this actually works fine in sparsely populated areas where fires are not likely to spread in temperate climates. The only reason fire services are public is because of the inherent risk to everyone tha…

covid vaccines?

> pandemic/disease control

Edit: also a much more significant factor only in densely populated areas

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#158

Post by mikepurvis »

noncoml wrote: post #109
duxup wrote: post #22

I’m not inclined to do an exit interview because I’ve likely already expressed my opinions. I do think the “the company doesn’t care about you” type advice does require some nuance. Different companies make different choices and just because someone moves from mega corporation to mega corp doesn’t mean you shouldn’t trust anyone… There’s space in between giving your entire self to a company and imagining everyone is…

My experiences while at Cisco about 4-5 years ago: 1st experience: Told my boss I am leaving. My boss’s boss calls me in a room , tells me he has some great projects for me and that we will work together on them. I agree. Turns out it was his last day! 2nd experience: Similar situation, told my boss I am going to a startup. Boss’s boss calls me and gives me a lecture about how it is a bad idea to go to a startup. I l…

It's wild to me that those managers would have been loyal enough to the company to behave that way toward you when not only were they themselves on the way out the door, but the hypocrisy of it would have been instantly obvious, on a timespan of days, not even months or years.

My impression is that in the modern world, most workers consider their personal network to be of much greater value than any ways that their current employer could reward them for "loyalty". Having been a manager and had people quit on me, my response has always been pretty candid and along the lines of, "yeah, obviously this is tough for me as I've really valued your contributions over the time we've worked together. However, you've been clear about your expectations as far as comp/projects/tech/mentorship/career/whatever, and although we've tried to do what we can, I can understand that the role is no longer a great fit for you, so the decision to move on makes perfect sense. Best wishes with your next gig."

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#159

Post by duxup »

sanderjd wrote: post #103
duxup wrote: post #22

I’m not inclined to do an exit interview because I’ve likely already expressed my opinions. I do think the “the company doesn’t care about you” type advice does require some nuance. Different companies make different choices and just because someone moves from mega corporation to mega corp doesn’t mean you shouldn’t trust anyone… There’s space in between giving your entire self to a company and imagining everyone is…

One of the reasons I left a BigCo is the pervasive cynicism. I really had trouble finding it satisfying to work in an environment where cynicism was so deep and widespread but nobody wanted to leave because of the advantages (like good pay and good tooling). It just felt stifling after awhile.

> but nobody wanted to leave because of the advantages

The cynical approach does seem to lead people to … the places that make them cynical.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#160

Post by danaris »

engineer_22 wrote: post #148
kbenson wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that any different than some fiefdom ruled over by some noble? The whole point of democracy and elective government is that you can't rely on a system like that to be consistently good, whether it's the Duke's son squandering all the wealth and not listening to the people or a shift in management at the company. Just because sometimes there were benevolent companies that decided to contribute to their communit…

The counter argument, is that relying on benevolent government to ensure a desired outcome is just as naive. In both cases, the holders of power are people . You're just trading one person for another.

You're trading one person who has no accountability to you in particular or the populace in general with a group of people who have at least some meaningful accountability.

That's not an even trade.

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