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Why I'll never use Affirm again

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Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#151
post #121
post #91

Not victim blaming. Do not do payments. You either have the money or you don't. Save your money, buy it when you have it fully.

Would you say that's the case for bigger ticket, long lived items, such as houses or cars?

I think those are reasonable outliers, and that businesses like Affirm are unlikely to provide financing for those types of transactions.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#152
post #66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone had luck with this route? I went through the process and was unsatisfied. CFPB sends the complaint and then the company self reports that they didn't do anything wrong and then the complainer has a chance to say they disagree. I don't think they intend to resolve specific issues. They seem more like a trendspotter than solutionist. It's a circuitous path to the solution of get a lawyer. With CFPB, you are…

I had a major issue with Bank of America that I could not get any support on. I filed a CFPB complaint and was directly contacted by a representative the next day who solved my problem. Complaints are a big deal for these banks and fintechs; if the complaint level gets high, the auditors show up and plant themselves in the office and start digging. And when they start digging, they find things... things that end in p…

More like fines for 1/10% of profits made from the illegal behavior.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#153
post #147
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think that the better thing -- in an ideal world -- would be to contact Affirm and tell them to withhold payment from the merchant, since the merchant had not provided the goods. That way you'd still be in Affirm's good graces. But considering how this particular situation went as-is, I doubt Affirm would handle that request in any useful manner. Then again, I feel like this was a bit of an unusual situation…

Affirm is not like a credit card. They actually put your loan with Cross River Bank and are just the middle-man who collects commissions and collects fees from merchants for advertising on Affirm.com/app. I learned this the hard way... they care not if you get the item, or if it is good, or if it is a scam. Affirm is oblivious to it all. Just collecting fees.

Same with any other loan product the bank doesn't care if it's a scam, only cares about collecting that glorious interest payment or fees associated. Plenty of people buy bad used cars with loans that span over years and that used car may fail months after purchase. Guess who doesn't care... the loan provider/bank.

Still the point is Affirm was the wrong target for their chargeback and the OP should have contacted Affirm to potentially resolve the merchant not delivering the goods or a refund of the loan.

Merchant > Affirm > OP Bank

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. That's why I've done payment plans as well. Not because I couldn't just buy the thing, but because spreading the payments out over 12 months means more investment capital.

> because spreading the payments out over 12 months means more investment capital This is essentially borrowing money to invest. It doesn't matter if the investment makes money or loses money the lender will expect payment. This strategy can make a lot of money, but it's also ruined many people. One key thing to watch while implementing this strategy is your debt to assets ratio. Also understand that during a market…

> Not only is it somewhat risky

Sort of depends on the investments doesn't it?

Sure, if you sink every penny into penny stocks or crypto you are definitely running a huge gamble. On the other hand, there are non-stock market investments that are perfectly safe. Go grab some TIPS/iBonds for the full amount of purchase. Or maybe go a little riskier and grab some bond index funds. Both of those options aren't playing the stock market.

If you wanted something a little more risky but not "throw it all on GME" then grab an ETF like VOO or VTI.

Obviously do what you like. I'm pretty comfortable with my ability to pay off my obligations.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#155

I worked at a large OTA (Online Travel Agency) who adopted Affirm a few years back. I vehemently opposed it and told everyone I could up the chain of command. A vast majority of the folks who used it, are the ones who shouldn't use it. Taking out a two year loan for a 3 day vacation.

Why? It's actually extremely smart financially as stated in another thread where investing that money over 2 years can actually result in a slightly cheaper item.

The general thinking is something like ‘people who can’t pony up the cash right away are more likely to be in a more precarious situation and repeated use of BNPL services can lead to unmeetable obligations either because that person experiences a drop in income or because of many separate loans adding up.’ To some extent the argument feels like saying that poor people are stupid with managing money, which I think isn’t particularly true (though I also suspect there is some correlation in richer societies) but another way to phrase that is that it is much easier to live within your means if you have a lot of means. Certainly people do end up with debt they struggle to afford from schemes like this but it is hard to tell how big an effect it is from reading sob stories in newspapers.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#156

This is kind of OP's fault, right? I don't think it was appropriate to initiate a charge back on a payment to affirm since they provided their service to OP, that is they already paid for whatever OP was buying. I have a feeling that timing between OP opening the chargeback and the shipping of the item was actually coincidental. I'd think if you paid affirm and the merchant hadn't shipped the item, then your recourse…

I used Affirm for a Casper mattress back in the day. Much the same scenario, it said "make X payments in Y months" and I was like "Ok".

I think that's Affirm's wheelhouse, providing smaller merchants of largish ticket items an easy way to do financing. So OP may not have had an option outside of Affirm to do the financing.

I'm not sure how much Affirm would care about the issue as they're pretty much a 3rd party to the entire situation. But, yeah, I think the order of operations here would be: call merchant, call Affirm, then call credit card.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#157
post #46

I've never understood the appeal of using a product like Affirm, especially if you already have a credit card. Credit cards already give you a 30-day grace period before purchases start accruing interest. Using Affirm to extend that to 42 days seems inconsequential. It seems like their target customer are people bad with credit, which would make them predatory.

ive used them for a 12 month 0% interest. why not let them eat inflation for me, and I can put my money elsewhere

Where will you put the money you’ve saved to beat inflation? When the market is good I’d say this Is a good plan but when the market is bad the only place that makes sense Is a HYSA

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#158
post #10

This is so strange. If Affirm is the creditor why does he not ask Affirm to initiate a chargeback against the merchant? Is this one way Affirm can compete against credit cards, that they do not need to handle this kind of situation?

Affirm does allow people to open a chargeback dispute, but personally I was always taught to go through your credit card/bank. Also, after reading this account I would be very hesitant to go through Affirm for anything. Chase seems responsive on the other hand.

I would always suggest trying to initiate a chargeback through the actual payment handler first - if they're unresponsive then I think it's perfectly reasonable to turn to your bank.

This write up looks like a great argument to just try and work through the system first.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you pay your balance in full each month every card is 0% forever, at least in the U.K.

At this moment in the US at least Bank of America, Discover, Chase, Citi & Capital One have publicly available offers for cards with 15 - 18 months of zero interest. All but the Chase (Slate) & Citi (Diamond) offer rewards of 1% back or better. It is very common to get a credit limit in the range of $10-20k on these cards, one could easily put all expenses on a 0% interest card, make minimum payments and put the amou…

That's basically what I do: put most purchases on a decent Chase rewards card, and pay the statement balance each month. I haven't paid a penny of credit card interest in many years.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#160
post #10

This is so strange. If Affirm is the creditor why does he not ask Affirm to initiate a chargeback against the merchant? Is this one way Affirm can compete against credit cards, that they do not need to handle this kind of situation?

Affirm does allow people to open a chargeback dispute, but personally I was always taught to go through your credit card/bank. Also, after reading this account I would be very hesitant to go through Affirm for anything. Chase seems responsive on the other hand.

The issue here, is Affirm is the paying bank. OP effectively opened a credit account with Affirm, and used that credit account to buy something. Then did a chargeback of his payment to the credit account, instead of having the credit account do the chargeback.
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