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My boundaries as an open source developer

joeldenning.com

151–160 of 251 posts

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GitHub should have an option to disable PRs for a repo, however: - Owners are of no obligation to approve, close, merge, or interact with a PR in any way. If you don’t want to merge a PR, just don’t. - you can include a readme which can include whatever discouragement you want. - if you have a CONTRIBUTORS.md file, GitHub will show that to first time contributors when they submit a PR. - I’m sure you could trivially…

All of that imply that contributors will read things before hitting the Fork button.

And everything (besides ignoring PRs) requires content to be explicitly added to the repository to configure GitHub's behavior. For some use cases -- like mirrors of repositories hosted elsewhere -- this isn't possible.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#152

A few years back I was in a role where it was my job to maintain a small but non-trivial open source project (~1500 github stars, 5 core contributors). I burned out after about two years in that role. People repeatedly demanding help in the github issues without even providing repro steps. Hate mail to the project email list from users angry we didn't implement the feature they want in the latest release. We had peop…

> People repeatedly demanding help in the github issues without even providing repro steps.

This is the biggest annoyance for me. There's a very clear issue template on my repos. It provides concrete, reasonable requirements (for example, post the actual config that broke!) yet people frequently expect support without filling it out. Even worse, they will make drive-by comments/demands on random PRs instead of opening an issue.

It's kind of amazing how entitled people are.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#153

A few years back I was in a role where it was my job to maintain a small but non-trivial open source project (~1500 github stars, 5 core contributors). I burned out after about two years in that role. People repeatedly demanding help in the github issues without even providing repro steps. Hate mail to the project email list from users angry we didn't implement the feature they want in the latest release. We had peop…

Sounds like OS developers would benefit from Product Managers who could shield them from the users (among other PM tasks). Do many OS projects have PMs? Are there any "standards" around non dev roles in OS projects?

Unfortunately my experience is that most PMs are not sufficiently technical. They will often add more work by injecting useless processes and try to "demonstrate value" by coming up with new ideas without actually understanding the problem domain.

The best approach I have found is simply to add more automated gates/bots. If people have not done what the bot asks, there's no need to waste time/energy on them.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#154
post #124

I used to maintain several popular open-source projects and contribute to even more popular ones. It was always fun at the beginning, especially because I built them for my own needs. But I kept getting asked to fix bugs or improve things even long after my needs had expired. I tried the donation route for a little while but it didn't go anywhere - I received maybe a few hours worth of money (versus hundreds if not t…

I related pretty strongly to this. I've never tried to monetize, and the community I'm mostly working in (ROS) is populated almost exclusively with exactly the sort of kind, considerate people who will happily roll up their sleeves to take a crack at it themselves, given a little guidance. Nonetheless, there are dozens of effectively abandonware ROS projects out there attached to my name— drivers for some sensor I sh…

> And in some cases I've just granted PR authors write access and been like "there it's yours now." But none of these end states feel quite right; in all cases I end up feeling guilty and unsatisfied with how it turns out.

What feels wrong with this? Personally I'd much rather hand a project over to someone else than leave it completely archived.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#155

So much this. I'm glad he put this out there. I'll start linking to it too. There seems to be a common misconception about open source. When I release software as open source, it does not mean I work for you for free, need to provide you with anything, even need to be nice to you. I may. Or I may not. When I release software under an open source license, then we have a very specific deal. You are entitled to do certa…

I will preface this by saying I have immense respect for anyone who open-sources their work. I think the web as we know it today would not exist without such kind and hard-working individuals. In my opinion, I think most of these issues outlined in the article are caused by lack of communication combined with unclear expectations, to be honest. The only thing I ask of open-source library authors/maintainers is this:…

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Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#156

So much this. I'm glad he put this out there. I'll start linking to it too. There seems to be a common misconception about open source. When I release software as open source, it does not mean I work for you for free, need to provide you with anything, even need to be nice to you. I may. Or I may not. When I release software under an open source license, then we have a very specific deal. You are entitled to do certa…

I will preface this by saying I have immense respect for anyone who open-sources their work. I think the web as we know it today would not exist without such kind and hard-working individuals. In my opinion, I think most of these issues outlined in the article are caused by lack of communication combined with unclear expectations, to be honest. The only thing I ask of open-source library authors/maintainers is this:…

I agree with you. There was a comment on here at some point that if you have a solution that starts “If everybody would just...”, then you don’t have a solution at all. Everybody will not just respect open source maintainers (well deserved) right to not be harassed, poked, and prodded.

I 1000% agree that open source contributors and maintainers don’t owe anyone anything, but if people still demand things, I’d recommend putting disclaimers like you’re recommending front and center, if at the very least so that maintainers can respond to the pushy people with a link to it.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#157
This is a good read. just to get a sense of some of the OSS maintainer experience. As far as a practical guide, it's my experience that the vast majority of users of OSS software libraries "get" these things already and therefore you don't hear from them. However, just 1% of users who don't "get" it at all, and do all the direct messaging / manipulative stuff are still there, and that's who ruins your day.

Which then leads to, those people are absolutely not going to read a blog post like this, they can't even read GIANT LETTERS IN BOLDFACE at the top of a github template telling them to please provide a test case / stack trace / etc.

After doing this for 16 years I have realized that while you need to put up guidelines, instructions for interacting, issue templates, etc., at some point you can't keep putting up signs to PLEASE DONT DO THIS - because the people for whom the ALL CAPS is intended for are the last people to read/ care about any of this, and the stern messaging otherwise brings the mood down for that vast majority of users who aren't going to be bothersome in any case.

You have to just have a pre-packaged response for the various things you get:

1. "hi" on IRC in private message from someone you don't know (obviously looking for help) - ignore. there's no response you can have for this person in this setting that will make the situation better (keep in mind, there are many forums / chats/ systems this person can use to get help, and they are well documented. these people ignored all that and are trying to go right to the main dev to get private help. they most certainly know how to find things because they found your nickname on an irc network. so this is overall a pretty rude move, but even then, some people just arent aware of what they're doing or how to act)

2. email asking for help - this is probably not too different from the "hi" in private message thing but I tend to give folks like this a short answer and point them to github discussions / irc, mentioning "there's some folks there who can help us further" (note the word "us", to soften the blow a bit). the emailers tend to be completely bewildered and generally lean heavily towards overall beginner types so I do try to gently guide them into the wider community for help.

3. recruiters - geezus, they just don't stop. I pretty much ignore them, which they have all caught onto these days so they email you over and over again...I will send back a one liner about 50% of the time after they've pinged me three times

4. weird link-sharing emails who want to put some kind of endorsement for some programming tool on my site that makes absolutely no sense to be in the context they are proposing - I usually just ignore these. Hard to tell if those are spam robots or what but they can be persistent with fairly emotionally charged "can you at least tell me what you'd be interested in?" kinds of replies...I mean these folks I'm sure are sending thousands of these emails out, are they sending out hundreds of frustrated third-requests to everyone who doesn't reply also?

I do feel for this developer since producing a JS web-development oriented library is going to generate lots more attention from a lot of users with relatively low levels of technical sophistication. I'm thankful that the Python world still attracts high quality people with reasonably good manners about things.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#158

If an author can publish code with a take-it-or-leave-it attitude, why can't people make requests with the same attitude? If the author is under no obligations at all, a request is no problem, right? Well, the problem is that it's not so absolute. Publishing something normally invites feedback and it's awkward to completely ignore it. Just like it's awkward when you report a bug and get silence. I'm not suggesting a…

For the most part, the people that the product is offered to don't insist that the creator do work on demand. A small portion of obnoxious users make a point of insisting that the creator who already gave away their work for free remains under some kind of obligation to do more work. For the most part, creators giving away their work for free don't insist that the people it's offered to accept it. A small portion of…

Maybe obnoxious people aren't the problem. Maybe reasonable people are.

After all, I wouldn't lose sleep over an obnoxious person making an obnoxious demand. They'd be summarily ignored.

But I would feel a tinge of guilt if someone made a good faith effort to offer an improvement, and the contribution was technically sound, but I just didn't get to it.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#159
post #148
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason FLOSS exists as a term to differentiate itself from OSS and I think the ideological differences between the two are important. So does Bruce Perens, the co-founder of OSI and the author of the Debian Social Contract of which the OSI definition was based off: https://web.archive.org/web/20140716055445/https://lists.deb... This was back in 1999 - it's been over 20 years and "OSS" has only been muddied…

Where is this muddying happening? The only place I've noticed it is on HN, where others always correct the poster by pointing at the Open Source Definition. Maybe it is time to ditch both "open source" and "free software" and go with something that has a clear meaning that isn't possible to muddy, like "libre software", prefixed with "always" for copyleft licenses and "currently" for permissive ones.

Those who sit on the Open Source side of things constantly muddy the waters and claim they are one in the same. Those who sit on the Free Software side of things are adamant that they are related but different.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point....

The important bit is here:

> “Free” and “open” are rivals for mindshare. Free software and open source are different ideas but, in most people's way of looking at software, they compete for the same conceptual slot. When people become habituated to saying and thinking “open source,” that is an obstacle to their grasping the free software movement's philosophy and thinking about it.

Re: My boundaries as an open source developer

#160
Open Source Software promulgated by GitHub is made commonly available in the form of actual source code.

If this code does not suit your needs, change it such that it does. We're all engineers/developers/coders/hackers with Top Notch Skills right?

Make a fix thats well thought out and well integrated, commit, pull request and hope the maintainer finds value in integrating your code into the next release.

Should you come across a maintainer that doesn't share your view of the issue and depending on licensing constraints simply maintain the code you were given for free on your own.

That or ... I dunno... Maybe pay someone? Venmo is a thing? Do you even Crypto bruh?

* I spent 5 years working for a company that successfully took this approach. Pre-GitHub of course.

* OP is totally on target.

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