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Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

thetimes.co.uk

151–160 of 301 posts

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#151

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I stand by what I said. Focus on what you have in common and deal with disagreements by leveraging conflict de-escalation techniques such as NVC https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication . Think about what you stand to gain arguing with someone on the internet. Consider what it does to your mindset. I agree with you on civil disagreement and standing up for what you believe. For instance - I disagree wit…

> For instance - I disagree with you on the lab leak theory and laptop comments. I understand you feel about them strongly, but I think you are smart and should reconsider the source material for those claims. Further, I feel the way you expressed it was regrettable: "blood on their hands" is unnecessary and inaccurate. You could have phrased that in ways that were more accurate, more effective, and less inflammatory…

Sorry, I don't have much time to reply but you have a good point.

That is correct and intentional. My core point is that everyone can benefit changing how we disagree and when we choose to disagree. In what you quoted, I was just trying to make the point less abstract with a concrete example. I wasn't trying to be persuasive or reach some sort of resolution. I could have been more effective, thank you.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#152
post #113
post #96

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> The Trump admin didn't do those things despite all of his bluster. Yes, it's an administrative motte & bailey. Police support, individual and organizational, for Trump is incredibly high and their loyalty to him transcends official channels. He's explicitly endorsed violence against journalists, brutality towards suspects, and celebrated the execution of Michael Reinoehl. While he didn't have direct control over th…

Again, encouraging bad actors is 100% different from using the full power of the executive branch to persecute journalists which he did not do, and Russia does.

Yeah, Russia is definitely worse, but I wouldn't say 100% different. Trump loves Putin and the power he wields.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#153
post #118

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Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. Both parties want power at the expense of "freedom". Censorship is part of existing as part of a society though. There are people who seek to actively hurt others using words and media, and the whole idea of a state is to (pretend?) to a…

> Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan.

What kind of an argument is this? The only common thread between the two is the word "banning".

Banning Joe Rogan is because he spreads misinformation about vaccines. He is causing lots of people to die, and the pandemic is longer because of it.

Banning a book about the holocaust prevents people learning about the atrocities of the past.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#154
post #98

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Curious what you're citing here? The american right obviously has an extremely robust selection of sources to choose from in every medium there is. You can read Breitbart or watch Fox, you can find multiple radio stations with talking heads in every market. You can find fellow travellers on Facebook or 4chan (or right here). The biggest podcast in the nation pushes a mostly conservative line. I mean, I'm sure that so…

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Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#155
post #38

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Even if he was an antisemite at one point in his life or even his entire life, how does that change what the original poster said about him - that he was brilliant? I'm genuinely curious because I've seen this kind of knee-jerk response across many avenues (e.g. x is an antisemite, is hitler, is a facist, is a commie, is a trump supporter) and I don't understand it. In the medieval era most people participating in Eu…

Was Elizabeth Holmes brilliant for defrauding Silicon Valley for over a decade with Theranos? By your standards, yes.

If Solzhenitsyn writes a brilliant but mostly exaggerated and fictitious account of Communist Russia, do you really want to celebrate this achievement? I do not and that's why I posted.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#156

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What would you call news outlets like MSNBC spreading lies about the Kyle Rittenhouse case? An honest mistake? Or calling the lab leak theory racist? Notice how this works? When a news source that is aligned with your political party gets it wrong "its ok" but when its a new source that is not aligned with your party its "spreading misinformation". There is no objective standard for misinformation so trying to say di…

I guess your assumption is that everyone left-aligned watches (and agrees with) MSNBC. That isn't true. I certainly don't watch it. There are reliable news outlets. Don't assume that just because an outlet has a political skew in the direction opposite from your preferred one that everyone you disagree with must watch and endorse it. That's a strawman.

> That's a strawman.

Its a strawman that you are introducing by saying:

> I suspect what you mean by this is "outlets claiming to report 'news' but actually spreading misinformation".

> That's quite different from "disagreement".

I am pointing out that there is not a large difference between what you say is misinformation and disagreement. Many news outlets get things wrong and are guilty of allowing political bias to steer them towards saying things that are not true. You can't just call something misinformation because you disagree with it.

Nearly every news outlet in this country has gotten things wrong at some point and a tenuous definition of misinformation could be used to make them all look bad.

Citing something as "misinformation" is often a strawman argument and a word used to dismiss viewpoints people do not agree with on any issue that has some ambiguity, including the lab leak theory.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#157
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. Both parties want power at the expense of "freedom". Censorship is part of existing as part of a society though. There are people who seek to actively hurt others using words and media, and the whole idea of a state is to (pretend?) to a…

> Censorship is part of existing as part of a society though I suspect that's exactly what Putin would say if he were challenged.

It's probably also what the parents of dead children in Newtown, who were harassed out of town by Alex Jones listeners, would say.

You need to elaborate more if you want to use hyperbole to make a point, otherwise it's just hyperbole. It exists on both sides of an argument.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#158
post #35
post #31

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To be honest, the blue camp is different only in rhetoric: if the red wants control in the name of national security, the blue wants the same control in the name of grotesque moral rightnessess. Fake news is a good summary of our media today, it just applies to both camps.

As a non-american, I can see how some actions of the left seem to be a bit over the top and as things escalated might really got a bit extreme too. But is a push against racism, for gender equality, LGBT rights really wrong? Do you notice, how much people, who stand for those issues, get attacked in the public discussion?

“ But is a push against racism, for gender equality, LGBT rights really wrong?”

Isn’t it an issue of framing? E.g. it appears that some think that the solution to racism appears to be implementing institutional racism indefinitely until racism is cured.

This is distracting from the real issue of class warfare which is what psyops relies on to divide prior arguing past each other.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#160
post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

Not just America, in the EU right now:

In Czechia up to 1 year for publicly supporting Russia (two people already detained): https://www.praguemorning.cz/expressing-support-for-russia-o...

In Slovakia, supporting [Russian] war propaganda 10 to 25 years: https://spravy.rtvs.sk/2022/02/za-podporu-vojnovej-propagand...

EU banned RT and Sputnik:

"It shall be prohibited for operators to broadcast or to enable, facilitate or otherwise contribute to broadcast, any content by the legal persons, entities or bodies listed in Annex XV, including through transmission or distribution by any means such as cable, satellite, IP-TV, internet service providers, internet video-sharing platforms or applications, whether new or pre-installed"

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