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Reddit can't build a better search engine

ruky.me

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Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#151
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?

Honestly, that's not my problem. "How do you satisfy your customer's needs while making a profit" is the same problem every other business has. It's up to the content creators to solve it. If they can't, then they go out of business. It's that simple.

If you can't make a profit from your content because you're giving it away with blockable ads then you should stop doing that and do something else.

If I went to a Ferrari showroom and they said "Here's a free Ferrari, but you have to keep that advert we've put on the windscreen. If you take it off we'll have to stop giving Ferraris away.", then I am driving a beautiful ad-free Ferrari around now and the showroom can't do anything about it.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#152
post #128

> I’d still prefer a targeted ad over a random ad that is unrelated to me. No, a million times no. A targeted ad requires my personal information being collected, and the resulting assumption of my needs may be offensive and even dangerous. I prefer a random ad. Or better, a place where I can just search the product I want in detail.

Yeah totally, that statement is actually absurd to me. Because ANY ad is equally off putting. But a targeted ad is based on personal information.

Regardless of how the ad was made, I will do anything to avoid it, just as I would any other ad.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#153

>So how can we fix the system? The best way to fix the system is to prioritize websites that are there to share knowledge, not websites with their primary priority to make ad revenue. Different solution: - Make a search engine that is actually good. Blacklist all SEO spam such as pinterest, allow complex queries, restrict by date, site, regex, etc - Charge 1 cent per search, or as much as is necessary Why has nobody…

Kagi Search.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#154
Reddit search results could be better. For example, it'd be great to search only in comments, or in post titles, descriptions. Now, it searches posts only. The subreddits search shows some relevant subreddits by their names, but the other results aren't valid. E.g. type any search query and there's a high chance that r/teenagers are there too. There could be no fancy algorithms, just give more filters. Meanwhile, people try to build websites around Reddit to leverage their search(what I do).

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#155

I sometimes wonder if we would have had very good search engines if one of the Tech Giants invested in a huge amount of manual information entry/organization instead of optimising around spam and junk websites. Like Encyclopedia Brittanica, but on steroids. With 500.000 editors and a couple millions volunteers instead of a couple hundred editors. Google has 135.000 people on staff right now, all very highly paid. The…

> Like Encyclopedia Brittanica, but on steroids. With 500.000 editors and a couple millions volunteers instead of a couple hundred editors.

DMOZ was pretty close to that, but freely available. And Google now has their Knowledge Graph, which is internally curated but largely fed from outside sources including the free Wikidata.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#156
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SponsorBlock might be of interest. > Skip sponsorships, subscription begging and more on YouTube videos. Report sponsors on videos you watch to save others' time. [0] [0]: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sponsorblock-for-y...

how do you expect the producers of the content you consume to continue putting out the content you want to consume if they're unable to monetise that content?

Why would consumers consume content if 50%+ of the content is ads? Adblocks make content consumable, without them, i'd stop watching 80% of the stuff I watch now. If ads (the amount and the type) were sensible, then sure, most of us wouldn't really care that much about them, but if a 35second "#shorts" video has a 20s ad at the begining, a "this is sponsored by..." by the author, and a 15s ad at the end, then we get pissed. Also, every fucking video has the same ad... raid shadow legends, nordvpn, raid, vpn, raid, vpn... same thing in every video. It really became so bad (for me personally), I'd rather not watch the video at all, if I can't avoid the ads, because it's just too much.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#157

This thesis is off. It's not as if Reddit just appeared on the internet yesterday. It's been a place people look for this kind of info for a long time, and people have been trying to game it for just as long. And it already has a good search engine - that just happens to be Google. So it still leaves the question: why does Reddit still have such a high signal-to-noise ratio. A few things I've noticed: 1. A lot of con…

The antidote outside of ruthlessly moderated special-interest "walled gardens" is a system no one really wants I think. It would need to avoid mechanisms that give community or interest groups powers to promote some content over others. It would need to avoid algorithms that automatically determine and recommend certain content. Other than pruning illegal contributions and obvious spam, it would need to avoid giving virtually any moderation powers to select individuals or the community. It couldn't allow paid promotion or require payment to participate as that merely enables those with greater financial means to contribute and have their content seen.

Introduce any one of these things and the whole system becomes gameable. Within these constraints it seems the outcome would be a loose graph of content tied to known individuals. It would grow amorphously over time, be largely undirected, and lacking the capability of being fully gamed, would probably avoid the attention of marketers and influencers. And probably general users too, since it wouldn't be easy to find interesting and relevant stuff and be quite boring for the average attention span.

The constraints bring to mind the early 90s web which basically had all of these properties. Outside of bulletin boards and UseNet that is. People wanted more convenience, hence search engines became the defacto way of finding entry points into these networks, which caused changes in how these networks presented and arranged themselves, point being even if we designed the perfect ungameable system, as you alluded to if any search engine or aggregator crawled and ranked its content, it would just be meta-gamed into uselessness.

Personally I've come to the conclusion we just have to accept that for the majority of online community-driven content, high SNR is here to stay, and we have to take what value we can individually as it comes. Unless we're willing to forgo conveniences like search, or relevant content recommendations, which I think for the majority of the web is a big old no.

For enthusiasts, building their own walled gardens with in-tune moderation is probably the way to go. Hacker News I think though not perfect is a good example of this, the SNR here is fairly decent compared to the broader web.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#159
I completely disagree with some of the points here. There seems to be this weird assumption from people that Reddit is some organic source of information that hasn't been polluted by advertisers and SEO. But the truth is that it absolutely has, the difference is that the way you game the system is different. Google is this crazy algorithm and no one really knows how it works, so people just throw shit at it. Keyword spamming, link farms, etc. All this auto-generated content. It's much more difficult to manipulate Google, but as an algorithm google doesn't object to people trying. The result is an obvious explosion of rubbish that raises the noise floor.

Reddit is different, they don't have algorithms. They have moderators. You don't need to figure out some crazy complicated way of manipulate things, you just have to either bribe or trick a couple of unpaid part time staff. And we've seen this so many times - moderators who use their position for their own gain. Now the result is different, this is what's misleading. On reddit because it's all manually moderated spamming is heavily penalized. So you don't get the noise floor of rubbish content. What you do get though, is highly unreliable information about anything that could be monetized.

It's exactly the same way on twitter, your energy company will be perfectly happy treating you like crap and keeping you on hold for 3 hours, or your airline company will throw your bags into a skip in Timbuktu and tell you you're on your own. But suddenly if you have a following on twitter and complain you get the red carpet treatment. Why? Because they've found a very easy way of cheating their customer service reputation.

Re: Reddit can't build a better search engine

#160
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently have noticed a business creating fictional threads on reddit (multiple on different communities) working as an AD to sell something. Example: „What is the cheapest best cooling for cpu now?” All discussions point to product that more experienced users know its crap. But still the wrong product is at the top with most (botted) upvotes. Companies realized that ppl look for opinions on reddit -> that created de…

I still think if you are internet savvy you detect these things almost instantly. Uncanny valley works on text too and the revulsion is just as strong. And all it takes to destroy your best cooling for cpu now bot setup is one user saying “No it is not and here is why…” right under the comment.

A few years ago astroturf on Reddit was of low value and was easily spottable.

Now, some of it is so good, it takes longer to confirm than to find.

If there is enough value in a community people will exploit it.

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