An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking • Hacker News Board

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#151

Post by tyingq » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:47 PM UTC

heavenlyblue wrote: post #129

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Police in the UK does not follow up on requests to retrieve iPhones from FindMyPhone because the GPS tracking isn't exact enough to find the correct appartment. So for stolen items, it is also useless.

I would guess that since it's getting pinged by any/every iPhone that gets within ~10 meters, the AirTags are often more accurate, since "more samples". That probably doesn't help in all situations, but helps in a lot of them.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#152

Post by cmelbye » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #113

jackson1442 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should all GPS trackers be banned then? The problem with AirTags is they're accessible; these problems have always existed with any kind of GPS tracking.

Serious question – which commercially available GPS tracker can be used for this purpose? I have been looking for one for years ( not for stalking, I promise) and absolutely nothing fits the bill. They are all large (impossible to slip into, say, a purse), expensive, have minimum $20/mo subscriptions (with credit card registration), require you to register a SIM card, and have a battery life measured in days. Now you…

$4 GPS Tracker https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mini-Car-GSM-GPRS-GPS...

+

$5 Pre-Paid SIM https://www.amazon.com/SpeedTalk-Mobile-Tracking-Locators-Wi...

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#153

Post by colinmhayes » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:48 PM UTC

concinds wrote: post #119

Android users are still vulnerable, and these announcements do nothing to reduce that. All a stalker needs to do, is remove the speaker. To detect a rogue AirTag, an Android owner needs to: 1) know AirTags exist (many obviously don't) 2) go out of their way to install Apple's Android AirTag scanner app (only 100k-500k worldwide have done so according to Google Play stats) 3) manually open the scanner app and scan, si…

Maybe you don't lose stuff as much as other people? My brother was always complaining about losing his wallet, his keys, anything you can think of. I got him a tile, but their product wasn't very accurate. Got him airtags and the problem is solved. Not only are air tags useful, but I'm sure that there are people who would be willing to switch to iOS solely to get access to airtags. That seems pretty valuable to apple.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#154

Post by nynx » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:51 PM UTC

I think the AirTag stuff will eventually be limited to localized areas where the tags are wirelessly powered.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#155

Post by thomasguide » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:51 PM UTC

chroma wrote: post #125

todd8 wrote: post #48

I like the functionality of the AirTags so I don't want them nerfed, but I can think of no way to fix their fundamental problem of being such easy to use stalking devices. Chefs knives are great for cooking and are inexpensive and easy to purchase; they can be very dangerous weapons in the wrong hands so we make it against the law to use them in that manner. Maybe that's the best we can do with AirTags.

> Chefs knives are great for cooking and are inexpensive and easy to purchase; they can be very dangerous weapons in the wrong hands so we make it against the law to use them in that manner. What? I've lived in several western countries and I've never had a knife purchase that was tracked or controlled in some way. There's only one place I know of that controls ownership of chef's knives: the Xinjiang region of China…

Knife purchases are controlled in the U.K.[1] Persons under 18 are not allowed to buy knives, but in practice this means most people are showing an ID to purchase a knife.

[1] https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#156

Post by jedberg » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:54 PM UTC

labcomputer wrote: post #147

jedberg wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you on a shared iCloud account? This never happens to my wife and I but we’re on the same iCloud family account.

When you say "iCloud family account", do you mean you both log into the same account using the same credentials, or that you use "family sharing" to, e.g., share iCloud data, purchases, etc.?

Not the same credentials, the other one. I forget what they call it, but basically we pay one bill and share iCloud storage and apps between us.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#157

Post by someguydave » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:56 PM UTC

warning26 wrote: post #93

Hot take: There is no conceivable way to make Airtags safe, and they should be banned entirely. The problem is that by leveraging Apple devices to get worldwide geolocation and data service effectively for free, they make tracking trivially easy in a way that no other entity could.

What is unsafe about airtags that is unique?

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#158

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:57 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #92

"It’s why the Find My network is built with privacy in mind, uses end-to-end encryption..." "Apple can provide the paired account details in response to a subpoena or valid request from law enforcement" Hmm

The location is end-to-end encrypted, Apple doesn't know where an item is at any given time, only the owner does.

Who owns the tag (assuming someone has it in their possession) is not end-to-end encrypted.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#159

Post by notatoad » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:59 PM UTC

paxys wrote: post #92

"It’s why the Find My network is built with privacy in mind, uses end-to-end encryption..." "Apple can provide the paired account details in response to a subpoena or valid request from law enforcement" Hmm

probably the same loophole as the "end-to-end encryption" in iMessage. it's end-to-end, but the client is their close-source proprietary software, so if they need access to the data they can just remotely access the client software that you've authenticated and access whatever they need to.

Re: An update on AirTag and unwanted tracking

#160

Post by gambiting » Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 11:59 PM UTC

thomasguide wrote: post #155

chroma wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chefs knives are great for cooking and are inexpensive and easy to purchase; they can be very dangerous weapons in the wrong hands so we make it against the law to use them in that manner. What? I've lived in several western countries and I've never had a knife purchase that was tracked or controlled in some way. There's only one place I know of that controls ownership of chef's knives: the Xinjiang region of China…

Knife purchases are controlled in the U.K.[1] Persons under 18 are not allowed to buy knives, but in practice this means most people are showing an ID to purchase a knife. [1] https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

In addition, carrying a knife on you without a good reason is a crime in itself - and yes going home with a knife you just purchased is a perfectly valid reason. But having a knife on you "just in case" is not, unless you live in the middle of nowhere or are a farmer or something. Get stopped in the middle of London with a knife and that's a serious crime.