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This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

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Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#151

Post by albrewer »

snowwrestler wrote: post #65
sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

> Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! Microsoft’s antitrust case is frequently misunderstood. MS was a supplier to the companies that made and sold computers. They got in trouble for messing with other suppliers. Apple manufacturers and sells the computer. It’s not analogous.

If I can sideload apps on an Apple device, what's stopping me from buying a bunch of them, sideloading my special apps, and reselling them at a markup? Or, if the bootloader becomes unlocked, wiping iOS off of the device and installing Android? There's no way to even have other suppliers right now because Apple has everything so locked down.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#152

Post by judge2020 »

yorwba wrote: post #100
colejohnson66 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their saga with the Play Store shows that that isn’t the case.[0] Once you allow third parties to use different stores, and those stores aren’t as restrictive, you bet businesses are gonna move there. The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. See also: the whole Steam vs Epic issue on Windows. Should Apple open their store? Sure. But it’s not as cut and dry as people m…

> The whole “if you like the App Store, just don’t use the others” doesn’t work in practice. Why not? Isn't that the status quo? If you like the App Store, you buy an iPhone and don't use any of the others. If you like F-Droid, you get an Android phone, put LineageOS on it and don't use any of the others. Or if you like multiple Android stores, you can do that too. Allowing multiple stores on Apple devices just reduc…

They're saying that when what's being asked (alternative stores without paying % cut to OS vendor) doesn't solve this at all, as Epic has its own store on Windows but gamers absolutely hate it since Steam is so much better[0], yet Epic purchases exclusivity rights to new games; it only has marketshare because they give away free games and Fortnite requires it.

0: https://redd.it/b94c4i

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#153

Post by scarface74 »

smoldesu wrote: post #120
scarface74 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 60% of the US population have iPhones because it’s a “lifestyle product”?

Sure. The "blue bubble" effect is strongest in the United States, and Apple's most iconic catchphrase under Steve Jobs was "it just works". If that's not the hallmark of a technology product being adapted to a lifestyle product, I'm really not sure what is.

So you believe that 60% of Americans on average spend twice as much on iPhone, just for the “blue bubble”? There couldn’t possibly be any other reason?

So technology products shouldn’t “just work”?

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#154

Post by unfocussed_mike »

coder543 wrote: post #98
Grustaf wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the 27% is a troll, but the warning screen is 100% in line with how they always do things. Just like when you run an executable on your mac that you downloaded from the internet, they warn you and ask you if you really want to open it. That's not about money, it's about making it clear to users what they are about to do, so they don't have a bad experience and are put off Apple products.

> That's not about money [citation needed] It can be about more than one thing at the same time, but it certainly seems likely to be about the money. Apple wants people to use the App Store on their Mac more. Those apps can be malicious too[0], but you don't see Apple warning you before you download or open them. [0]: one of the first links on google, but this is not an isolated incident: https://appleinsider.com/art…

> It can be about more than one thing at the same time

Indeed. Remember we live in a world where Tim Cook can say in court that he has "a feeling" the App Store is profitable, and that is apparently where it is left.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#155

Post by btmiller »

jeroenhd wrote: post #126
alistairSH wrote: post #68

Meh, mixed feelings about this. I like Apple's payment system. It works, it's consistent, I can cancel things from a single menu. There are real benefits to me, the consumer, to using Apple's system. On the flip side, other payment systems can be a hodgepodge of unsecured, user hostile (cancellations), and inconsistent. There can be real negatives to using other systems. More so some systems that don't have a consist…

The thing is, you don't _have_ to buy things through a third party and you don't _have_ to buy anything if you don't like the payment processor. The market will correct itself when shitty applications with shitty UX don't get any sales, unless it turns most customers don't care and people like you are the minority. In a perfect world, there'd be a "pay with Apple Pay (€2,60)" button right next to the "pay with iDeal…

> The market will correct itself when shitty applications with shitty UX don't get any sales

I think your assumption is too optimistic. The only way the market would correct itself in this situation is toward user hostility with easy signups but hard cancellations (e.g. New York Times). So yes there will be some market correction, but only in ways that increase sales at the cost of user tolerance.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#156

Post by jsiepkes »

disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

Fine, but apps should be allowed to let you pay via alternative methods and also allow you to pay via Apple and charge you the 30% extra costs which Apple wants.

I highly doubt you would pay 30% more just so you can pay via Apple.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#157

Post by lastofthemojito »

disgu wrote: post #132

I'm probably in the minority here but I'm at a point where I'll simply not purchase any service if I cannot use the in app form of payment. I'm just done with everything else. If I miss out on something then so be it. Have you ever bought an Adobe subscription, ever tried to cancel a New York Times subscription? Or Audible where they say "Well, you can cancel but then we'll also take the tokens you've already paid fo…

Cancellation pain is a big driver for me too. I've heard lots of people say something like "streaming services are no better than cable was, once I get Service A, Service B, Service C ... I'm paying as much as I was for cable". And that may be true for some people, sometimes. But if the streaming services are easy to cancel, then I often only keep a subscription active for a couple of months at a time. Ok, I saw the HBO-exclusive stuff I wanted, now I'll disable it and maybe check it out again in a year. And that's easy to do now! I guess HBO doesn't love hearing that part, but easy cancellation makes me much more willing to sign up for it in the first place, which they ought to be happy about.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#158

Post by horsawlarway »

jaywalk wrote: post #128
capableweb wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that holds up in practice. The "fix" for the anti-trust claim (or what it was called) was for Microsoft to add a popup asking the user what browser they wanted, and Internet Explorer (or whatever it's called today) is still as embedded into the OS as it was in the past.

IE isn't embedded in the OS in any significant way any more, and hasn't been for a while. Windows Explorer used to basically be a wrapper around IE, for example.

Windows explorer is STILL a wrapper around IE - I can go install COM components for IE that will run just fine in explorer.

And the vast majority of the webviews used by the OS were IE (now webview2, based on Edge instead).

It turns out the ability to display a webpage is a pretty critical part of any modern operating system - they all support some form of a webview. The one in Windows is based on browsers that MS develops and owns (IE, then EdgeClassic, now Chromium Edge). It's absolutely baked in still.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#159

Post by scarface74 »

bogwog wrote: post #149
scarface74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Netherlands population is a little more than half of Texas’s population. Apple could completely pull out of the Netherlands and wouldn’t even feel the affect.

This is completely incorrect. Apple will feel the hurt if they lose a market with 17 million people. They won’t go out of business, but whoever was adjacent to that decision will be losing their job.

Out of those 17 million (which when Apple was still giving out number of iPhones sold was about a quarter’s worth of sales in a low quarter)…

- not all are buying iPhones

- roughly 3 million of the population are under 15.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#160

Post by jeroenhd »

alistairSH wrote: post #135
jeroenhd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, you don't _have_ to buy things through a third party and you don't _have_ to buy anything if you don't like the payment processor. The market will correct itself when shitty applications with shitty UX don't get any sales, unless it turns most customers don't care and people like you are the minority. In a perfect world, there'd be a "pay with Apple Pay (€2,60)" button right next to the "pay with iDeal…

100% agreement on their 30% cut. I was speaking strictly from the consumer's perspective, assuming they would never be shown two different prices.

I'm not sure why they wouldn't show two prices. In fact, the checkout screen could just as easily show the price with and without payment processor fees applied.
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