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How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

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Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#151

Post by NikolaeVarius »

zach_garwood wrote: post #120
qwytw wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An average worker in Ancient Rome is not really comparable to a worker in a modern country (e.g he likely would had spent >50% of his income on food, so equivalent wage would probably below the minimum wage in US). The prices in Diocletian's degree don't really make much sense, e.g. for 40 Denarii you could buy ~5 pounds of beef or only 8 pounds of rye/barley. So likely the price for tunics is quite a bit higher than…

The average worker in ancient Rome was a slave.

No they weren't.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#152

Post by mikewarot »

bluGill wrote: post #32
retrac wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

> Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. Sure you could. The antikythera mechanism shows more than enough skill and precision to make a small one. It might only be a toy for the rich though. I'm not sure if you could afford enough metal to make one large enough to do useful work, and even if you could the fuel…

No, you couldn't. It wasn't until Wilkinson had perfected his boring machine and Watt had a model of a steam engine that could not be be realized because he couldn't get a precise enough bore, that Wilkinson took it upon himself to bore the first steam engine cylinder that worked.

In order to get this, there are a lot of steps involved, including the ability to sand cast and bore iron of sufficient quality to take a reasonable amount of pressure.

If you got to that point, you might want to build a Stirling engine instead, it's far less likely to explode and kill people.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#153

Post by xyzzyz »

KineticLensman wrote: post #136
xyzzyz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milling grain, hammering wrought iron, crushing ore etc. There were plenty of uses of mechanized power even in antiquity, and the ancients realized that through use of water wheels.

> Milling grain, hammering wrought iron, crushing ore etc Are these actually feasible with a large low-pressure steam engine of the sort that the Greeks could have actually constructed? Remember that the early real steam engines were only just powerful enough to slowly lift buckets of water. [Edit] - good answers below - thanks! But I think the question of economic viability still stands. As pointed out elsewhere, a…

Yes, because that work had been done at the time by even more underpowered devices, that is, by actual humans. You’re lucky if you get half a horsepower from a good human, so replacing them with low HP steam engines might still be worthwhile.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#154

Post by [deleted] »

pomian wrote: post #111
lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's court. A novel by Mark Twain. it is really fun.

[deleted]

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#155

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

shuntress wrote: post #138
mywittyname wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the OP is saying that there wasn't a need for mechanized power, just that it wasn't profitable to get that power from steam. Water wheels have no fuel costs, and very little ongoing maintenance costs. A steam engine that could be built in antiquity would be incredibly expensive in both respects. So even if the technology existed, there would be little economic incentive to use it over a water wheels, si…

Simple solution: Military industry. Some generals would likely find a mobile mill stone quite useful. When your centuria loot a conquered land they can now take raw grains in addition to processed flour without being tied down to the local stationary mills.

> mobile mill stone

... makes the brigade/regiment/whatever far less mobile for no real benefit.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#156

Post by damontal »

retrac wrote: post #19
lumost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s curious, if you go back in time far enough with all knowledge from the present, you’d surely arrive at a point where you still need to work your entire life to bring one component of one innovation to life. Even then, the innovation would be unlikely to survive your death due to other missing parts of the supply chain. Try building a musket in Ancient Greece, you’d need to start with building the steel supply ch…

Yes, you wouldn't be building a steam engine with the tools of Greek artisans in antiquity, not even the ones who built the Antikythera mechanism. But we do know some things that would seem like crazy hacks to the ancients. For example, I know a simple trick. I can multiply numbers, of arbitrary size. And I can do it in a few seconds using just a stylus and tablet. This would have blown the minds of a learned Roman o…

Mark Twain’s A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court is about this as well.

I thought it would be a silly story about a guy who get sent to the past but it is incredibly dark and pessimistic. The Yankee’s knowledge wows everyone, he’s put in charge of a war machine and creates an industrialized hell hole.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#157

Post by shuntress »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #150
shuntress wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple solution: Military industry. Some generals would likely find a mobile mill stone quite useful. When your centuria loot a conquered land they can now take raw grains in addition to processed flour without being tied down to the local stationary mills.

> Some generals would likely find a mobile mill stone quite useful. When your centuria loot a conquered land they can now take raw grains in addition to processed flour without being tied down to the local stationary mills. Not in the slightest. The legion on the march has no use for a millstone because nobody's eating bread. They would never carry processed flour, because it spoils quickly. They carried raw grain an…

That sounds wrong but I don't know enough about ancient roman military rations to dispute it. Do you have any sources?

I thought they primarily consumed bread (both hardtack and leavened), watered down wine/vinegar, and meat (when available.)

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#158

Post by sandworm101 »

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

>> $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality.

Go look at the price for a nice suit, or a designer dress. Those numbers are not terribly high.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#159

Post by causi »

wongarsu wrote: post #11

> So a linen weaver would need to work for (500 / 2×40 to 500 / 2×20) 6 to 12 days to earn the price of the simplest linen tunic So translating to modern wages (in US/Western Europe) somewhere between $500 and $1500 for the simplest tunic, or between $7000 and $21000 for the finest quality. That certainly puts the practice of robbers to take people's clothes into perspective.

I wonder how the longevity compares. Would a tunic last much longer than a modern pair of jeans?

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#160

Post by ncmncm »

jacobolus wrote: post #144
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok but we know about zero!

Anyone with a counting board also has zeros, as empty places with no counters, and ancient people had no problem understanding and using the concept of zero in calculations (though most probably would not have considered zero a “number” per se). They just didn’t write explicit zeros in their permanent serialization format. But there are certainly plenty of mathematical ideas and tools ancient people didn’t know about…

Or, indeed, negative numbers.
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