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Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

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Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#151

Post by zenonu »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #140
jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

As a counterpoint: I had 10G networking and went back to 1G last time I reorganized. Haven’t really missed the 10G for now . I ditched the 10G because the 10G switch was hot and noisy and had a fan, whereas my 1G equipment was silent and low power. This could be overcome by putting the switch in another room, obviously, but I haven’t missed it enough to go through the trouble yet. > During the 2 years of the pandemic…

All of my 10g equipment is silent or near silent. Most recent purchase is the TP-Link TL-SX105. Take another look the next time you redo your home network. At least consider multi-gigabit.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#152

Post by stefan_ »

sschueller wrote: post #50
ZiiS wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If it was SPF+ you could use that. As it is copper only you need to buy a more expensive (and for most uses less good) copper one for whatever you plug it into.

Copper SPF+ get very hot and waste a ton of electricity. I think doing anything over 2.5G on copper is not ideal.

That's really the big reason you don't see more of 10 GbE - over copper it's kind of terrible technology and you should really use fiber. But that's a big jump, so people stay at 1/2.5 GbE.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#153

Post by PragmaticPulp »

kkielhofner wrote: post #148
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint: I had 10G networking and went back to 1G last time I reorganized. Haven’t really missed the 10G for now . I ditched the 10G because the 10G switch was hot and noisy and had a fan, whereas my 1G equipment was silent and low power. This could be overcome by putting the switch in another room, obviously, but I haven’t missed it enough to go through the trouble yet. > During the 2 years of the pandemic…

This is exactly where I ended up recently. I went from noisy and power hungry Cisco/Juniper 10G switches to a silent Ubiquiti GigE switch with PoE and haven’t been happier. 10G was cool but I can’t recall a single instance where I really wish I had it back.

> 10G was cool but I can’t recall a single instance where I really wish I had it back.

Same. It only really made a small difference to my most transfer-heavy workflows. Even a fast NAS is still slow relative to local storage (it’s not just about sequential transfer speeds).

I’m sure I’d feel differently if I was doing something like video editing where I had to move large files back and forth frequently and wait for them to be ready.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#154

Post by wolrah »

thedougd wrote: post #100
walrus01 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

10GbE and 100GbE on fiber is quite cheap and easy now - but 99% of consumers and people doing ordinary stuff have no capability or interest in doing fiber. You can terminate cat5e or cat6 with $25 in hand tools... I think what's new is the prevalence now of 2.5 and 5GBaseT ethernet chips that are cheap enough companies are starting to build them into any $125+ ATX motherboard. At short lengths even old crappy cat5e h…

I'm seeing 2.5 and 5 popping up all over the place. My WiFi App has 2.5 with POE. The aggregate bandwidth of the AP exceeds 1G. Spectrum cable modems have 2.5G ports now and AT&T Fiber is shipping their garbage gateway with a 5G port. Unfortunately, I'm finding switches with 2.5 to still be overpriced.

As I understand it 2.5 and 5G modes were originally primarily aimed at WiFi APs as real-world capacities started to scale past gigabit speeds but replacing existing wiring for an entire building worth of APs to support 10G or completely redesigning the power infrastructure to support fiber would have been impractical.

Instead we run 10G signaling at half or quarter clock rates and get something that works on the majority of existing wiring.

AFAIK the IEEE was initially resisting supporting this, but enough vendors were just doing it anyways that it was better to standardize.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#155

Post by bhouston »

jiggawatts wrote: post #80

Some people are saying that they don't feel the need for > 1 Gbps in a home network. As a counter-point, I'm regularly limited by 1 Gbps PHY limits. During the 2 years of the pandemic I've been working from home with gigabit Internet. Why gigabit? Because that's the "speed limit" of the Ethernet PHY in the fibre broadband box, and also my laptop's ethernet port. My laptop can write to disk at multiple GB per second,…

I went to 10GB ethernet (and 2GBps Fiber to the home) and I couldn't go back. It is amazing. I did have to upgrade the NAS to be able to handle consistent >1GB streams in and out though.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#156

Post by lbriner »

All very well but aren't these devices in most cases the cause of software that is too damned slow? What happens when devs with their 128GB RAM and 64GB graphics cards write things like MS Teams, Slack, Visual Studio, most other IDEs etc.? You get simple apps that take 10 seconds to start up on ordinary desktop machines.

As others have said, there are advantages to pushing people to use normal spec machines to remind them that most of the world don't have 10GbE or even 20Mb broadband but would still like apps to start quickly.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#157

Post by aix1 »

ericd wrote: post #81
jagrsw wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're 50USD or so. The main problem seems to be that they use ~3-4W of power each, and it's more than power budget of a single SFP/+ slot (2W or so), and they become v.hot (~70°C), what can lead to overheating of switches.

Yeah, the mikrotiks recommend populating only every other slot if you're using RJ45 transceivers to avoid overheating.

Is the power consumption (and heat dissipation) a function of bit rate? E.g. would the same 10GBASE-T transceiver consume less power when running at, say, 2.5Gb/s than at 10Gb/s?

Would love to understand this a bit better.

(edit: corrected the units.)

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#158

Post by goda90 »

lbriner wrote: post #156

All very well but aren't these devices in most cases the cause of software that is too damned slow? What happens when devs with their 128GB RAM and 64GB graphics cards write things like MS Teams, Slack, Visual Studio, most other IDEs etc.? You get simple apps that take 10 seconds to start up on ordinary desktop machines. As others have said, there are advantages to pushing people to use normal spec machines to remind…

End users don't have to compile the software each time they want to run it. A dedicated performance testing setup with realistic hardware is better than wasting a developer's time waiting for their machine.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#159

Post by simcop2387 »

virtuallynathan wrote: post #133
Jnr wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and I would never actually use the copper cables with RJ45 for anything above 1 gigabit. Those ethernet cards heat up a lot, use too much energy. This would be a bad investment. Get a proper patch or optical cables and use SFP+ instead.

I’ve never had this as a problem, and I use 50-100ft of Cat5e + 10GBaseT SFP+’s… it’s well within the thermal limits of the SFP, which probably uses 2-5W.

I'm surprised you're able to get anything reasonable for 10G over any modest length of cat5e, i made a few attempts at doing it for fun when i was upgrading some of my stuff and could only get anything to work with cat6 at a minimum for more than a few meters.

Re: Add 10 GbE to your system with an M.2 2280 module

#160

Post by seized »

jjoonathan wrote: post #145
YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your NAS NVME based if you are using spinning metal you won't reach speeds to saturate 10GbE especially with small file sizes?

If somebody knows why they should pay a premium for 10GbE, they also know how bad spinning rust is.

Those same people should also know that spinning rust can go very fast as well... My 8 and 12 drive spinning rust pools can read at 500MB/sec easily and get close to GB/sec.

But the 10Gbit network is there for the flash pool.

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