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Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

calcalistech.com

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Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#151

Post by colpabar »

yonixw wrote: post #142
ForgotMyPwOops wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Israel is its own nation and it isn't America's business what it does to its own citizens. I would argue that as long as Israel is lobbying the US to make it illegal for Americans to boycott Israel it is in fact our business https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws > The spread of anti-BDS laws in U.S. states is largely due to the lobbying of the Israel Allies Foundation (IAF), an umbrella group of Israel lobb…

BDS != The only way to criticize Israel. Lobbing against BDS has a pretty simple cause... From the same page: > ... A dozen local and national parliaments have passed symbolic resolutions condemning BDS. Most of these condemnations have alleged that BDS is anti-Semitic. Austria, Canada, France, Germany, Spain...

Do you think that maybe the lobbying groups funded by israel had something to do with those resolutions being passed?

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#152

Post by hidudeurcool »

hunterb123 wrote: post #132
MichaelMoser123 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ignoring some minor details, like that Israel had to fight some real frigging wars over its bare existence, and is still facing a regional power that calls for its extinction. Looks like Israel isn't getting too much love, at least not here at HN. I maintain that we in Israel are still a very normal, western type society, if you take all these rather extreme circumstances into consideration (and, in addition,…

If it's any consolation, these comments here do not reflect a general opinion and liberal leaning places seem to have this anti-Israel agenda, and it seems to be more prominent recently. Maybe I'm just paying more attention. That's not to say everything is perfect, no country is. But in perspective of everyone's actions in the region I support Israel overall. I don't want to get into a political flamewar, just wanted…

No post body was provided.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#153

Post by ForgotMyPwOops »

yonixw wrote: post #150
ForgotMyPwOops wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you believe boycotting is protected speech? Do you believe American citizens should be allowed to choose who they boycott?

I do. But I don't if it's anti-Semitic. And that's the whole question. Seems like many agree it's the latter.

Who decides what is antisemitic? It seems to me that based on your logic all speech can be prevented assuming some arbiter declares it antisemitic

Boycotting can hardly be considered protected speech if that's all it takes to silence it

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#154

Post by yonixw »

colpabar wrote: post #151
yonixw wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BDS != The only way to criticize Israel. Lobbing against BDS has a pretty simple cause... From the same page: > ... A dozen local and national parliaments have passed symbolic resolutions condemning BDS. Most of these condemnations have alleged that BDS is anti-Semitic. Austria, Canada, France, Germany, Spain...

Do you think that maybe the lobbying groups funded by israel had something to do with those resolutions being passed?

I do, but, If it also happened in Germany and France which frequently criticize Israel, seems like it anti-BDS has nothing to do with silencing criticizing Israel... because they haven't stopped since.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#156

Post by yonixw »

ForgotMyPwOops wrote: post #153
yonixw wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. But I don't if it's anti-Semitic. And that's the whole question. Seems like many agree it's the latter.

Who decides what is antisemitic? It seems to me that based on your logic all speech can be prevented assuming some arbiter declares it antisemitic Boycotting can hardly be considered protected speech if that's all it takes to silence it

> Who decides what is antisemetic?

The Majority.

> Some arbiter

Nope. The Majority.

> if that's all it takes to silence it

Nope. anti-semetic is kinda big deal. We all should treat it as such and run from it like fire.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#157

Post by colpabar »

yonixw wrote: post #154
colpabar wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that maybe the lobbying groups funded by israel had something to do with those resolutions being passed?

I do, but, If it also happened in Germany and France which frequently criticize Israel, seems like it anti-BDS has nothing to do with silencing criticizing Israel... because they haven't stopped since.

Another way to look at it is that it isn’t about stopping criticism if the criticism has no effect. Serious boycotts can be very effective, but “criticism” from politicians can be meaningless.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#158

Post by slg »

friendlydog wrote: post #125
cwkoss wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish America was the sort of nation that would sanction them for using draconian surveillance of their own citizens. Unfortunately Israel is effectively politically sanction-proof - even for much more abhorrent policies and actions.

Israel is the 3rd largest recipient of US foreign aid receiving 3.2 Billion in US tax dollars in 2017 with only Iraq and Afghanistan receiving more. Reducing foreign aid while America is floundering would be a small step to the road of recovery.

That $3.2 billion works out to roughly 0.01% of the federal budget. Plus much of that money just comes right back to the US economy when it is used to purchase American military equipment.

Israeli aid has nothing to do with why the US is "floundering". If anything, bickering over small potatoes like our foreign military aid budget instead of focusing on larger issues like the necessity of our own military budget likely is a bigger contributor to us "floundering".

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#159

Post by cmurf »

yonixw wrote: post #137
markdown wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He gave up his own life trying to fight an unwinnable war against genocidal colonising europeans who had taken over his motherland, forced his people into barely habitable camps, and crushed their souls in a decades-long campaign of violence. There's nothing beautiful about it. It's all ugly.

You are a poet... Now back to reality. They waited to suicide bomb themselves near the maximum available innocent bystanders, to kill as much people. while their leaders hide in their mansions. They are the scum of the earth. And thankfully, Israel stopped them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lehi_operations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_operations

Terrorist or freedom fighter depends on which side you're on.

Re: Israel police uses NSO’s Pegasus to spy on citizens

#160

Post by ForgotMyPwOops »

yonixw wrote: post #156
ForgotMyPwOops wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides what is antisemitic? It seems to me that based on your logic all speech can be prevented assuming some arbiter declares it antisemitic Boycotting can hardly be considered protected speech if that's all it takes to silence it

> Who decides what is antisemetic? The Majority. > Some arbiter Nope. The Majority. > if that's all it takes to silence it Nope. anti-semetic is kinda big deal. We all should treat it as such and run from it like fire.

Should all speech be up for vote? Should all opinions that the majority disagree with be banned?

I believe weakening protections such as free speech, which are used by the vulnerable to call attention to their plights, is much more likely to hurt Jewish people than allowing ostensibly antisemitic expression to exist

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