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How to design a house to last 1000 years

constructionphysics.substack.com

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Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#151

Post by dahfizz »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #85
dahfizz wrote: post #15

Constructing a building that would last 1000 years is not particularly hard with modern engineering and materials. The hard part is, first and foremost, getting someone to pay for it. I'm not going to live 1000 years. My great grandkids likely won't even live to see the year 3022. Why would I spend orders of magnitude more for a house if a structure meant to last ~100 years serves my needs perfectly? My friend just n…

> The house will be torn down if it's in a city The world is varied, it's not just a copycat of the terrible design affecting US cities. One example? I live in Venice, Italy. The city is 1,600 years old. Most houses and palazzos are at least 400 years old; a big chunk of them is at least 600-700 years old. No one is going to tear down these places. And no, rising sea levels will not destroy Venice (see the MOSE dam […

> Finally: I'd love to build a house that will last 1,000 years. Even if my great-great-great-grandkids will not be around to see it.

I mean yeah, in the abstract I think anyone would agree. I would also love to be able to build a 1000 year house. But it costs a tremendous amount of money, and there are things higher on my priority list than the status of a structure 900 years after my death. Until you fork up the cash for it, my point stands.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#152

Post by jethro_tell »

dpark wrote: post #140
jethro_tell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already do this with commercial construction. Every floor is just a big box that can be sectioned off as the new owner sees fit. The key is that the structure is basically self standing with nothing but the outer walls, and if it's a tower, the center core instead. Add a vertical chase way too to bottom for easy reconfiguring of cables and pipes and you can basically do anything you want until the structure fails.…

> Another major thing is the drop ceiling. It's designed to make access easy so that you can run cables and new plumbing anywhere you want. > It's ugly so you'd want to find a way to have a modular ceiling that isn't a drop ceiling, but maybe that works for you. If you build with trusses for floors instead of joists, you can get a lot of the same benefits as a drop ceiling without the ugliness. You can run plumbing/v…

The 1000 years is a separate conversation I think than the modular concept. One could lead to another, but depending on how modular you wanted to be, access to the ceiling is a must.

On the other hand, if you make the trusses large enough and give an /attic/crawl access you could go up there and do the thing without needing to renovate. Then all center walls are non structural and you can move them as you please.

Come to think of it, I might build a house like this.

You can also leave the mechanical on the outside and not cover it too. I guess there's a certain beauty to me in the robot parts but I don't think many would like that.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#153

Post by kibwen »

prox wrote: post #134
ortusdux wrote: post #53

Stainless steel rebar is an often overlooked option. In theory, solid SS rebar should outlast the concrete, but it is a difficult thing to accurately study. In favorable conditions, regular rebar reinforced concrete starts to need major repairs after ~40 years due to corrosion. The Progresso Pier in Mexico was build over 80 years ago with SS rebar, and reportedly has not needed any renovations. A pier built 20 years…

How does the Pantheon in Rome keep its structure? Is it just concrete? Since it’s 2000 years old now.

Here's a good video on the use and tradeoffs of Roman concrete engineering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL0BB2PRY7k

TL;DW: whereas modern construction uses rebar as a way to keep concrete from fracturing under tensile stress, the Romans made their constructions enormous so that the weight of the structure itself would compress the material and keep it from failing from tensile stress. Their monuments weren't built huge just because it cool, but also because it was practical. But large concrete constructions are both expensive and take years and years to cure, and depending on your concrete chemistry the strongest mixtures can also be much more difficult to work with.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#154

Post by daneel_w »

The construction presented uses modern design elements that are barely 50 years old. While surely sturdy, it's still speculative. Europe has loads of original construction from the 11th and 12th century, offering valid and proven examples to study.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#155

Post by jandrese »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #106
KaiserPro wrote: post #100

I hate to be a stuck in the mud, but a concrete pad, with unreinforced piles is not going to last a 1000 years. those piles are going to be impossible to repair without breaking the slab, or undermining, which means it's expensive to maintain. (yes Roman concrete has lasted 1k years, but thats a different type to the cement they use now.) The other thing that they've not managed to control is moisture. You can't mix…

Have they ever figured out how the Romans made concrete and got away with not using rebar ???.

My making the walls incredibly thick, not having large overhangs, and having the foresight to build an empire in a seismically dead area.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#156

Post by twobitshifter »

Fiahil wrote: post #128

I expected something much simpler : bricks, stones, and wood. It's not like we are running low on examples of 1000+ years buildings ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_century_in_architecture ). These castles, cathedrals, farms, were built to last, so it's appropriate to use them as examples. We can, however, apply modern technics and materials when they make sense : insulation, windows, waterways... Prefer wood, wo…

What is behind your thinking that plastic won’t last? Plastic is estimated to take 1000 years to decompose in landfills. Obviously it did not exist millennia ago, but I wouldn’t write it off as not future proof.

I too have a 200 year old house and the sagging mentioned in the article seems inevitable in wood.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#157

Post by scatters »

jacquesm wrote: post #96
masklinn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me like, given the expense and duration goals, you'd be much better off forgoing steel entirely and creating a stone gravity-bound structure, and making the places where you can't go with stone easy to repair or replace, something for which I'm not sure structural steel is ideal. > Our other option is slate. Slate roofs have extremely long lifespans and are extremely attractive. But, like copper, they’re mor…

Yes, another way to spell Slate roof = work. The reason is simple: Slate, layers of fossilized leaves, has a rough surface and frost and the weather in general will work on it and split the layers apart, seeds will find enough purchase to germinate (the handy supply of water certainly helps) and lichen and moss just love to grow on slate. This whole article to me reads: "I'm planning on an overpriced construction for…

Slate is not made of fossilized leaves; its foliate structure arises from the metamorphic process as flakes of clay (aluminium silicates) align and merge into sheets under transverse pressure. Any organic material present in the original sedimentary deposit will typically result in a graphite inclusion.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#158

Post by dpark »

jethro_tell wrote: post #152
dpark wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another major thing is the drop ceiling. It's designed to make access easy so that you can run cables and new plumbing anywhere you want. > It's ugly so you'd want to find a way to have a modular ceiling that isn't a drop ceiling, but maybe that works for you. If you build with trusses for floors instead of joists, you can get a lot of the same benefits as a drop ceiling without the ugliness. You can run plumbing/v…

The 1000 years is a separate conversation I think than the modular concept. One could lead to another, but depending on how modular you wanted to be, access to the ceiling is a must. On the other hand, if you make the trusses large enough and give an /attic/crawl access you could go up there and do the thing without needing to renovate. Then all center walls are non structural and you can move them as you please. Com…

How often you expect to reconfigure is a huge factor. Drop ceilings make complete sense in many commercial buildings, where access to change/move cables and whatnot probably happens every year. For residences, that sort of work happens a lot less frequently.

You can also get away with ugly ceilings more easily when they are higher. A drop ceiling 8 feet or less from the floor is an eyesore. At 12 feet up it’s a lot less noticeable. Of course if you have very high ceilings you can often just leave them uncovered and have a more industrial aesthetic. You have to be more intentional about routing all the utilities then.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#159

Post by dahfizz »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #94
dahfizz wrote: post #15

Constructing a building that would last 1000 years is not particularly hard with modern engineering and materials. The hard part is, first and foremost, getting someone to pay for it. I'm not going to live 1000 years. My great grandkids likely won't even live to see the year 3022. Why would I spend orders of magnitude more for a house if a structure meant to last ~100 years serves my needs perfectly? My friend just n…

I don't think anything 'modern' is needed. There are Roman building still standing and many of those which no longer are are so because they were abandoned and/or 'recycled'. Buildings like for instance Notre Dame de Paris are 800+ years old. A thick stone structure seems to do the job fine.

Its easy to overlook the constant maintenance and repair these historical buildings get. Thick stone buildings are definitely sturdy, but I still maintain that modern technology makes it significantly easier to make a 1000 year building.

Re: How to design a house to last 1000 years

#160

Post by 6510 »

Nice but no cigar. You start bij looking at structures that lasted thousands of years.

So you start with a giant blob of rock (mountain) then carve your cave out of it.

Have a reliable source of water nearby and carve out a trompe for compressed air. You cant beat a solid state megalithic generator.

For heating you carve out a chicken coop with a thin wall bordering the living room.

Use finger paint on the walls to explain how everything works and for decoration.

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