Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 448 posts

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#151

Post by theli0nheart »

deltaonefour wrote: post #140
freediver wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counter argument is that US has a very developed suburban living culture with families living in houses. And while obviously this is comfortable living, you then need a car to get to the city center. Having said that, I agree that nothing beats the walkability of European cities, quality of living wise. US has a lot to learn from that.

This type of urban design is unsustainable. It is the reason why the US is number one at producing greenhouse gases.

> It is the reason why the US is number one at producing greenhouse gases.

This is incorrect. China currently holds this spot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#152

Post by cjblomqvist »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #100
cjblomqvist wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

New York City proper (five boroughs) has a population of 8.4 million. Sweden has a population of 10.35 million. But yes, I agree with your sentiment about having high density of manufacturing in a particular segment will probably skew your policies towards it. This might explain why Munich is so rich, but has such poor mass transit compared to Berlin. What surprises me more is that big Japanese cities like Tokyo and…

I was thinking of NYC metropolitan area w/ 20 million in population :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#153

Post by discordance »

flor1s wrote: post #132
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I think Tokyo still has too many cars (and plenty of two or three lane roads) and Japan as a whole isn't really bicycle friendly. The city is very dense however and the cost of parking spaces makes cars only accessible to upper class families.

Japan as a whole may not be bicycle friendly, but you can get across all the major cities on bike quite easily without interacting with high speed cars. There are either bike lanes on main roads or back streets with no traffic to circumvent interaction with cars.

Have done this in Tokyo, Osaka and Nagoya and they have been fantastic cities to bike commute in.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#154

Post by orn688 »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #125
makotobestgirl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is honestly the thing that bothers me most about cities the US. Having grown up in Europe, I find many (I'm sure there are exceptions) US cities to be plain ugly and unlivable. The reason is obvious to me. It's that they are designed around cars. It makes such a huge difference.

US "cities" are just not dense enough to be called cities. This is not America's fault. They have a resource most of the world lacks: space. Too much space and you cannot make a real city.

There's no "cannot", it's a conscious choice - if you have more space than necessary that absolutely does not require that you expand to fill all of it. And in particular this has caused issues because American cities tend towards sprawl, filling up area with low-density housing that requires significantly more infrastructure per capita, and implementing zoning laws to prevent higher-density development even as the population grows, resulting in housing shortages.

Not Just Bikes has some excellent content about this, e.g.: https://youtu.be/XfQUOHlAocY

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#155

Post by deltaonefour »

causality0 wrote: post #147
deltaonefour wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This type of urban design is unsustainable. It is the reason why the US is number one at producing greenhouse gases.

The US is neither the largest producer of greenhouse gases nor the largest producer per capita.

My bad, number 2 largest producer of greenhouse gases per capita. Right behind Australia which basically has the same type of suburban city design centered around cars.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#156

Post by analog31 »

_8j50 wrote: post #103
danielrpa wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities? I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

It means you are dependent on cars for one, which also means insurance companies, gas,car payment, etc... I am actively trying to ditch cars in a car city because of this. You wastr so much space for parking lots too. You interact with a lot less people because you are always at some destination with the journey barring you from interacting with the people of the city. Physical fitness and health is also affected. It…

From what I can tell, depending on the "car lord" is getting worse and worse too. There may have been an era when cars got more affordable due to greater reliability and longevity. I'm concerned that the car makers have figured out how to defeat that idea by charging fees to use the electronics in your car, and that servicing the batteries is going to be a rent-seeker's heaven.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#157

Post by ripe »

danielrpa wrote: post #85
ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities? I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

Forget about the emissions issue, I just hate driving and having to depend on its supporting infrastructure (repair shops, gas stations, insurance...) for my day-to-day needs. I live in a US suburb. Can't even get a sandwich or buy milk or see someone without strapping myself into my fucking car. This is no way to live.

If I could, I'd give up ever having to drive again in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, here we have few realistic options given where employers are located and how poor the transportation options that remain. It's a racket.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#158

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I lived in Tokyo for almost five years, and owned a car while I was there ... I don't think this is a question of the city being "designed around cars".

There's a lot more "design for cars" in Tokyo than there is in, say, New York City - look at the Shuto expressway with its multiple rings of highways that run around the city and the radial routes that join them together; its elevated sections and tunnels through the most densely populated parts of the city...

There are also many areas in the urban core with multilane roads, but these always seem to be complemented with pedestrian over/under-passes.

Driving in Tokyo is very much more pleasant than driving in the NYC metro area. There is no street parking (by law), but there is often masses of underground parking to compensate: go to Akihabara, for example, and you'll find a five-story deep parking garage with >500 spaces under the Yodobashi Camera store.

One thing that Tokyo does have is a regulatory regime that means that cars are unavailable to the less well-off. That awesome Shuto expressway is a toll road. You have to provide documentation of owning a parking space in order to be able to register a vehicle. The biennial safety inspection (shaken) and taxes are very expensive by comparison with U.S. standards. Gas costs the best part of $6 per gallon.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#159

Post by zdragnar »

wffurr wrote: post #115
LAC-Tech wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a chicken and egg problem. In many western cities - and I won't name names - the downtown area is not pleasant due to anti-social behaviour. So even when they do make it walkable, I don't want to walk there, I'd rather drive to a suburban mall and reduce my chances of an altercation. Until that's fixed it's a non-starter.

Cities with shittier weather, e.g. in the Northeast or upper Midwest, don’t seem to have this problem as much. Much less antisocial behavior than in California cities, which seem uniquely bad in this respect.

You would think so, but we still get plenty.

What used to be a nice, safe neighborhood near uptown no longer is. Leave your car doors unlocked if you park on the street overnight, or else you'll find the windows broken by morning by kids looking for stuff to steal (happened to a coworker, the one night her husband forgot to not lock the doors).

In the last two years, theft of catalytic converters from cars, as well as carjackings, have skyrocketed citywide. It has definitely changed the mood on the streets.

We also have homeless camps, which get cleared out when the annual deep freeze comes through (amazing that people try to sleep outside when the temp can drop to -40). Those same encampents leave used drug needles all over public parks adjacent to schools.

Granted, I'd have the problems we have over what CA cities have to deal with, but then again I also chose to bail entirely to live out in the countryside.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#160

Post by cjblomqvist »

bedobi wrote: post #78
cjblomqvist wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

Overwhelmingly, it's the Social Democrat party, not evil capitalists or car manufacturers, who are responsible for aggressively promoting cars and car centric policy and infrastructure in Sweden. This fact will grind the gears of both Swedes and misinformed Americans alike, lol.

I thought that the social democrats have been having close ties to the industry for a very long time? Maybe not capitalists in a strict sense, but industrialists? To me it seems like it's the social democrats, the industrialists and the unions who for long time worked quite a lot together and aligned?
Post reply on HN