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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#151

Post by layer8 »

nunez wrote: post #132

I don’t think email is as decentralized and federated as it used to be. In theory, email is a service that is simple enough for anyone to run themselves. Most Linux distros come with sendmail, so theoretically it should be as easy as reading the manual and exposing some ports. Spam is performed server side both at the origin and at the destination to mitigate bad actors, and because email is simple, there should be n…

The thing is, you can have your email address(es) under your own domain, and change mail hosting providers while keeping your email address(es). It's true that too few people are doing that.

Apart from that, email is not going anywhere (not going away) anytime soon as the standard medium for B2B communication. And in B2C communication as well, an email address is the one baseline you can count on everyone having. I don't see that being replaced by anything proprietary either.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#152

Post by nottorp »

feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

Serious question. Does this government smart card work on anything but Windows? Or you need to buy a windows machine to go with your free smart card?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#153

Post by layer8 »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #99

E-Mail is one of the last remaining federated systems on the Internet, but I doubt it will survive long as the large players slowly sabotage it. I think already more than 90 % of all e-mails are delivered by three or four large companies, which is a trend that will continue.

A lot of businesses host their own email, if not on Linux then using Microsoft Exchange (see e.g. [1]). While that is being somewhat decreased by the cloud trend, I don't see it going away, as those businesses generally like keeping their independence.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26362178

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#154

Post by derbOac »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #120
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I still have a vague hope that the United States Postal Service could be "pivoted" into being a PKI provider and distribute physical tokens to citizens. They already have substantial procedures and infrastructure for verifying identity. There would be problems, to be sure, but I'd much rather get my ubiquitous PKI for citizens from the USPS than the banks or "tech giants".

I'd like to see the USPS expanded to become a public / municipal ISP of sorts.

If you read about the history of the institution, this is really what was intended in its constitutional incorporation. It really wasn't about physical mail per se, and you can't hold the founders accountable to something that was outside the realm of imagination at the time.

There's all sorts of information-structural things that are in the bounds of the USPS per the intent of its creation.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#155

Post by toyg »

Sebb767 wrote: post #136
toyg wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase One of the problems is that some of these checks can only be performed much later. The most common currency of choice, for modern bribes, is the promise of a fat gig in the private sector when the political career ends. As the public demands younger and younger political classes, with lower and lower salaries, while maintaining an appetite for career-endi…

> As the public demands younger and younger political classes, with lower and lower salaries Looking into the US senate, I fail to see that trend. In the last presidential election, both candidates were older than my grandparents. Even in my country, seeing a really young person in a political position is very rare. They exist (if you define "young" as under 40), but they are rare. I don't think age worries are a fac…

My outlook is European. In the US the political career is indeed longer, because there are effectively more levels (EU Parliament and Commission are still largely considered a step down from national-level politics, silly as it might sound). But the selectiveness (only two senators per state, often lasting decades) makes it similarly treacherous at the mid-level.

> They exist (if you define "young" as under 40)

In political terms, at the (European) national level, "young" is typically under 50, and "old" is over 70. Acquiring reputation and solid power base takes time.

Looking at the UK: Tony Blair was considered very young when he became PM at 44; Thatcher was 53, Major 57, Brown 56, and most of their predecessors were much older. Cameron was 43 but again May was 59 and Johnson 55. Backbenchers will typically enter Parliament around 35-40.

In Italy you can basically add 10 to all those numbers; the current PM (or PdCM, for the purists) is 73.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#156

Post by EvanAnderson »

nottorp wrote: post #152
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

Serious question. Does this government smart card work on anything but Windows? Or you need to buy a windows machine to go with your free smart card?

I can't rightly say that I am able to navigate the maze of standards and acronyms associated with smart cards, but the OpenSC tools on Linux have worked for me with a couple different smart cards (Nitrokey HSM and Taglio PIVKey). There are quirks. The Taglio PIVKey can't load certificates using OpenSC, but I've always generated the certificates on the device anyway.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#157

Post by derbOac »

causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

This was the idea behind the USPS originally, if you read records about it's founding. It wasn't intended to be about physical mail, but about "transmission of information" or something like that. It's actually kind of striking.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#158

Post by _8j50 »

dqv wrote: post #61
_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

I don’t get it. I was waiting for you to say “in favor of…” but you never got to that part. Let email die in favor of what? What is the viable alternative? Not a single messaging app I’ve used comes close to email. And I can’t use one messaging app, I have to have 6! I would be way more willing to move on from email if a solid viable alternative came along. XMPP, for example, is still too ephemeral and barely anyone…

How can there be a replacement if we can't even acknowledge the problem. Did you see how many people disliked what I said? Should there be solutions awaiting people's recognition of the problem? I remember similar sentiment a decade ago when I was saying similar things about https.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#159

Post by _8j50 »

cycomanic wrote: post #51
_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

Yes email is old and has lots of issues, it is still by a large margin the best we have. Name one protocol/program/service that comes anywhere close in its usefulness.

Sort of my point. It is shit but it is neccesary, any replacement is predicated on popular acceptance of the problem.
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