Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I worry about is having this data laundered through a couple of vendors. "How could we know our vendor's vendor was using genetic information in their proprietary risk score?" "How could we know our client's client was using our score for life, health, or auto insurance/employment/lending/etc decisions?" It's a "can't unring a bell" situation and the gaps in the regulations and the incentives for bad behavior ar…
Because insurance is regulated against this. They can’t just Willy-nilly get data and “scores” from uncontrolled sources.
Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
151–160 of 179 posts
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#152Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your DNA is almost exactly the same as other people's, just a unique mix. Not sure what you are concerned about. What would you expect a bad actor to do with your DNA sequences? I'm genuinely curious.
Using that analogy, all the 1s and 0s in your private key are the same as everyone else's as well. Genetic data can be used for all kinds of things, the worst of which would be things like targeted diseases or planting your DNA at a crime scene.
No, genomes are not "almost the same" because they are all in base-4 sequences and this made up of the same 0s 1s 2s and 3s.
We are astoundingly similar, even unusually so for a large mammalian species.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your DNA is almost exactly the same as other people's, just a unique mix. Not sure what you are concerned about. What would you expect a bad actor to do with your DNA sequences? I'm genuinely curious.
Your DNA is almost exactly the same as other people's, just a unique mix. Music is exactly the same notes, just a unique mix. So why is Sony upset that I want to stream their entire library? But jokes aside... A few decades ago I fought the military on collecting my DNA. I stalled them long enough to get my honorable discharge and avoid that all together. It's funny you ask because the commander asked the same thing…
I'm more curious what the actual threat might look like.
The marginal utility of your particular genome is miniscule. Without deep phenotypic information from biophysical parameters, it is utterly impossible to learn something novel from any single genome. This makes the marginal value of the genome information very low, both to you and any attacker or user. You would not be paid much for your data even if it was sold over and over because the rates are like those for plays on Spotify.
There are not fixed differences between human populations, and there are dramatic pressures to balancing selection that keep diversity focused in key genomic regions that are critical for immune response. This is to say that it would be damn hard to target any single group with a bioweapon. And if you wanted to target a single individual with a genomically targeted bioweapon, you also have physical access, making the problem of getting genomic information without consent trivial.
People often talk about insurance risk. I suppose that's an attack vector. It's also one that can be regulated with laws and social norms. Fwiw I wonder how often this is primarily an American concern.
Imagine a public genome data repository. People donate their genomes to science and post them there for the world to use and learn from. In my opinion, it would be better for an individual to share their data than not. The reasoning is that no matter what is done with the data, the net effect will be that society learns more about the individual's particular genome than those of people who haven't contributed. This will yield better adaptation of the society to the individual. Literally this might mean that a treatment for something affecting the individual is slightly better. In expectation, the worst thing that can happen is that the individual gains more information about themselves.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Mortgages in 2008 were regulated too
Subprime mortgages aren’t illegal? Insurers have auditing requirements to prove what goes into the policy calculation. It is impossible to hide illegal data use at any meaningful scale, and no insurance agency is looking to save a buck on a small number of clients. Your comparison is irrelevant.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#156They sell swab kits directly, or via NFT purchase, for ~$500 for a 30x near complete sequencing (that's 30 passes for over 99.9% vs 0.2% for 23andme et al). The results are stored in an encrypted AMD SEV-E vault to be accessed by big pharma or individuals, only for specific markers, in exchange for the $GENE token paid directly to the genome owner. Figures touted are $50-80 per request. This token is burned as kits are sold, can be staked, offers rewards like DAO membership, can be gifted to charities researching specific diseases in various populations. It can act as a form of UBI in unbanked populations and puts your DNA back in your control.
To me it's the best use of web3 tech I've come across, so disclaimer, I am invested and a DAO member, but it's early in the project still. They are not quite ready for mass marketing. They are moving over to Polygon for very low transaction fees in January, will be launching the first joint NFT/kit sale (the next season might include personal genetically generated art) to fill the vaults with 10k sequenced genomes. They are over half way already through work with charities, but that is the magic number before big pharma can start making queries. Right now though they are quietly building and preparing before marketing plans kick in later in Q1.
Take a look at https://genomes.io where everything is explained in more detail, the team are presented and the tokenomics set out.
TL;dr - for $500 right now you can get your entire genome sequenced, stored in a vault to earn you passive income, if you agree to each query. But wait for the NFT vs buying directly, it will have more perks.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interested outsider here; I work with a lot of HCLS research customers but don't have a biology-related background. Can you explain the problems with the Nanopore sequencer accuracy in more detail? Basically, I was wondering if I could get one for myself and sequence my own genome, then user the data to learn about life-sciences computing techniques. If I were to buy one of the USB-attachable devices and run it, is t…
Tl;Dr: Nanopore data is historically lower quality than current gold-standard methods, but it is by no means "not viable" in a genomics pipeline. Their newer chemistry flowcells are competitive with current gold-standard (but I've not seen it with my own eyes in the lab yet due to limited release). There are two components that drive sequencing error rate. 1) The chemistry behind the sequencing (for nanopore sequenci…
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#158This is very cool. Are there by chance any associated projects that could evolve into something like 23andme but remain entirely within a private network meaning that the data is entirely in the hands of the individual?
A used laboratory grade NGS system can be had for less than 10K https://www.ebay.com/itm/265148387179 Nanopore is still not quite ready yet for precise and high accuracy sequencing. Give it another five years.
If this can sequence flora, fungi and human DNA for about 10k - I'd buy it, just to experiment and deep dive. That is such a low barrier of entry it itself is interesting.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note that you are literally shedding identifiable DNA from your body at all times and a truly motivated adversary would have no problem obtaining enough sample material to do high quality sequencing.
In the near future (or arguably now depending on your purpose) you don't even need that. Assuming enough of your relative's sequences are available, the probability of you having certain genes/mutations can be narrowed down so much that having your individual genome doesn't add much.
Re: Sequencing your DNA with a USB dongle and open source code
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a pretty poor way of pigeonholing the problem. Looking at the US healthcare system, it's obvious that many doctors' and nurses' talents are wasted doing bureaucratic paperwork. Simultaneously, if there is a genuine lack of healthcare providers, there is no price signal that would encourage more to enter the market. What you say may be somewhat true in the context of transmuting the US's "private" bureaucracy i…
Capitalism, nepotism, public, private, insurance, nationalised healthcare ... the GP is saying that these are methods of dividing up available care, not methods for creating more available care. X is the amount of medical care available Y is the amount of medical care wanted If Y If X > Y it doesn't matter which system you choose, someone will go without. You can change who goes without but you cannot fix the system…
They are caused by high barriers of entry, which in turn are caused by entrenched elites gatekeeping jobs through absurdly high tuition fees, expecting everybody to take lots of student debt and a very litigation-friendly environment. These costs are then passed on to the general population through a byzantine system of health insurance that leaves a lot of people uninsured.
> Let's take a dream scenario: optimal organisation can make 20% more care available.
In 2020 UK spent 3278 GBP (~4400 USD) per capita on healthcare [1]. USA: 12,530 USD. That's about 3 times less or a difference of 200% [2].
In UK life expectancy is 81.2 years. In USA it is 78.79 years.
3 times more spent to get a worse outcome doesn't seem like "20% difference" to me. Of course there are other factors, but are they enough to overcome 3x difference? I don't think so.
You cannot compare healthcare systems on X doctors per Y patients basis, because the outcomes aren't linear. It's orders of magnitude more expansive to treat many health problems if you go to the doctor 2 years too late. And the outcomes are worse despite the higher costs. Guess what happens when people have to pay a lot for each visit - often they go too late.
[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/472940/public-health-spe.... [2] https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Sta...