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Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

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Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#151

Post by kaba0 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #10
hbbio wrote: post #3

The progress on all fronts is really impressive, and even the write-up is top notch. The pace at which the team advances is incredible, as it seems Apple support is minimal... Maybe the core tech users is negligible to Apple, but it shouldn't be: Winning over the power users generally precedes larger adoption and I wouldn't be surprised if Macs continue to gain market share in the years to come with their CPU lead.

power users come and go. general population don't need macs, a $ 200 smartphone is more than enough for the majority who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? only people with lots of money to waste.

Are there any other laptop currently on the market with similar performance and battery life? It’s not like M1s are the exact same as the models before.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#152

Post by kaba0 »

tonguez wrote: post #138
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

800 dollar laptops today are more durable than M1 with max 16 GB of RAM at double the price, because their RAM is actually upgradable most of the time. It's so funny see Mac fans argue about everything and its contrary that it's worth the obvious down votes.

"800 dollar laptops today are more durable ... because their RAM is ... upgradable" I think the word durable has more of a connotation of being resistant to damage rather than meaning "able to be used for a long time".

And let’s be honest, objectively apple’s products will beat the rest in longevity hands down. In case of mobiles, it is unfortunately not even a contest, but even an 8 years old mac will run fine with OSX.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#153

Post by kaba0 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #104
dagw wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why they have such a ridiculously low market share in Europe. Phone market share in Europe[1]: Apple 35.42% Samsung 30.81% Xiaomi 11.71% edit: some other sources have it Samsung 32%, Apple 28% and yet others Samsung: 30% and Apple: 22%, but either way hardly "ridiculously low" [1] https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/europe

Statcounter is not really a serious source for market share. Both Counterpoint Research and Strategy Analytics give Apple a more credible 20% market share in Europe behind Samsung and Xiaomi. It's not disastrous but it compares poorly to the between 55% and 65% of the USA market.

Well, it is a domestic product there (at least the HQ is US). Also, Eastern Europe probably worsens the percentages a bit because it is ridiculously expensive for us (like, there was a statistic recently on how many days one would have to work to buy the latest iphone and it was quite tragic from our perspective with something like more than 2 months worth of salary, while it is a few days in other countries)

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#154

Post by kaba0 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #12
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

power users come and go. general population don't need macs, a $ 200 smartphone is more than enough for the majority who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? only people with lots of money to waste.

I suspect you'll get downvoted into oblivion for your PoV by the pro-Apple HN crowd and even though I do agree with you to some extent on the the high pricing (a basic M1 MacBook is half my NET take home pay as a dev in Europe, and double my rent costs) but value is subjective to most people, and for most, buying into the Apple ecosystem the value the ecosystem brings to their lives is justified, otherwise they would…

The thing is, I’m not sure your laptop is better than an M1, let alone the newer gen ones. Apple is really ahead in the CPU game and I say that as someone who was never there fan.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#155

Post by skrtskrt »

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #44
LeonM wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get your expectations up too high. My ThinkPad X1E has horrible battery life under Linux, and has a boatload of issues with thunderbolt, the external dock, HDMI port, audio and WiFi. For example: when my Thinkpad goes standby with an external monitor attached via TB, some ACPI interrupt goes insane and starts burning 100% CPU resources. USB ports regularly don't work after stand-by. BMC support seems problemati…

Oh wow, this sounds quite painful. I almost bought the X1E, but now I'm glad I didn't. I'm on a X1 Carbon Gen 9 at the moment. I've had no issues with anything at all, besides having to change some settings on the WiFi chip to prevent the connection from dropping. In fact, Linux has been more reliable with external monitors than my old Intel MacBook. (FWIW, I have a Dell 4k monitor that has documented compatibility i…

I have the exact same experience with Linux (Fedora) on X1 Carbon Gen 9 (everything works great), and with the Intel Macbook, where falling asleep connected to the monitor almost always results in a crash.

You simply cannot beat the MacBook touchpad though. Feels amazing. The X1 Carbon trackpad and click buttons feel downright cheap in comparison, and it's the flagship laptop.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#156

Post by adgjlsfhk1 »

kaba0 wrote: post #152
tonguez wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"800 dollar laptops today are more durable ... because their RAM is ... upgradable" I think the word durable has more of a connotation of being resistant to damage rather than meaning "able to be used for a long time".

And let’s be honest, objectively apple’s products will beat the rest in longevity hands down. In case of mobiles, it is unfortunately not even a contest, but even an 8 years old mac will run fine with OSX.

If you ignore their macs from 2016 to 2020. All of those years have keyboards and display connectors that are very prone to failure, and they had negative thermal headroom, so they throttle down more and more as dust gets lodged in them.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#157

Post by monocasa »

marcan_42 wrote: post #110
phh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementing a PSCI mechanism in m1n1 sounds like a nice workaround (I could almost consider it an actual fix, even if it's not totally standard), but I'm a bit surprised: - Doesn't ARMv8 architecture require supervisor mode? You should be able to just pop a good old Arm Trusted Framework sample, implement PSCI in there just like other standard ARMv8? - Linux kernel already supports various PSCI-less architectures (r…

ARMv8 does not require EL3 (nor EL2, for that matter). They are architecturally optional, and there's a whole bunch of the spec dedicated to how things interact with their presence or absence. There is definitely no EL3 on these machines. Does rPi4 really have these features without PSCI? The internet suggests it does not support sleep states at all, and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't do any fancy CPU idle sta…

The rpi4 has some power management via the mailbox interface to the videocore, but it's just hacked on to the side and is more of an example of how not do things IMO. Particularly how it's exposed to user space is real gross (basically raw mailbox calls). It's closer to the primitives that psci or acpi would be papering over.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#158

Post by monocasa »

marcan_42 wrote: post #34
Aissen wrote: post #8

Anyone has a pointer to what "Blocked on PSCI discussion" means ? I'd be interested to read those (mailing list?) discussions.

It hasn't really started yet, other than some discussions on IRC, but the TL;DR is on every other ARM64 system those features are handled by either a hypervisor or a supervisor, via special PSCI calls. These machines don't have the option for a supervisor (and no nested virtualization, so an under-OS hypervisor would preclude VMs). Rather than introducing a special snowflake driver for these machines, the current thi…

Does apple use psci too, hence that smc redirects to el2 extension they have?

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#159

Post by earthscienceman »

marmaduke wrote: post #73
retskrad wrote: post #7

Alder Lake, Intel's flagship dekstop class CPU, is only 10-15% faster than the M1 Pro/M1 Max in CPU performance but it requires an insane amount of cooling and the power consumption is frankly ridiculous. Seems like Apple Silion will be 5 years ahead of the competition - similar to how long it took for others to catch up with the first iPhone.

Memory bandwidth is still 76 GB/s. One reason I’m moving science workloads to M1 is for the cache line size and memory bandwidth, which bump by factor 2-3x the speed.

"science workloads". What kind of science workloads?

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#160

Post by kaba0 »

LeonM wrote: post #22
RMPR wrote: post #9

This is great and might actually prompt me to get a Mac, as much as I like ThinkPads, this battery life is simply on another level.

Don't get your expectations up too high. My ThinkPad X1E has horrible battery life under Linux, and has a boatload of issues with thunderbolt, the external dock, HDMI port, audio and WiFi. For example: when my Thinkpad goes standby with an external monitor attached via TB, some ACPI interrupt goes insane and starts burning 100% CPU resources. USB ports regularly don't work after stand-by. BMC support seems problemati…

To be honest, I have been burned way too many times with intel CPUs so I am not sure it is a linux problem at this point.

Both my thinkpad t480 and t14 has cpu throttling, and the quite expensive t14 has it so seriously that it will lock to ~500 MHz and will become barely usable.

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