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Web3 is going just great

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Re: Web3 is going just great

#151

Post by sneak »

bawolff wrote: post #18

I hate this web3 bs as much as the next guy But, this seems more a list of people doing stupid shit with blockchain-y things, and not an argument against it as a whole. That doesn't distinguish blockchain that much from other technologies (e.g. consider WWW during the hype of dot-com bubble). I pretty much believe its all absolute bullshit, but picking some egregious examples, while amusing, doesn't really show that.

> I hate this web3 bs as much as the next guy

This is one of the narrative items I have a major issue with. The critics of cryptocurrencies in general seem to push the concept that only the insane, extremists, or shills would not hate these systems, and that all one has to do to hate it just like them is to read about it!

That's not really borne out in reality. This is one of those "everybody knows" things that's actually a falsehood.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#153

Post by colejohnson66 »

not2b wrote: post #113
exdsq wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue there’s an underlying value in tokens like Ether that is similar to paying for compute power and storage on AWS. I’m not saying the price right now is correct, but that there is an intrinsic value.

It cost compute power to produce the tokens, but that's sunk cost, not intrinsic. All that matters afterward is whether people want the tokens and will exchange things of value for them.

Is fiat currency any different? My coins and bills don't have any intrinsic value either, but they are still currency.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#154

Post by guessbest »

DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

Captain Kirk was a better captain.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#155

Post by anonymouse008 »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #115
deltarholamda wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit, as I see it. That has some value, and NFTs are kind of the perfect vehicle to use the technology. But does it have any practical use? That's the question. NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle, or as a way for artists to sell unique creations (leading to investment vehicles, I suppose). I'm not sold on the utility, long term.

> Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit > But does it have any practical use? That's the question. Sounds like a solution searching for a problem.

That is, until you close on a house and spend hundreds to potentially tens of thousands of dollars on title searches and bank fees.

Then ETH at the worst gas fees looks generous

Re: Web3 is going just great

#156

Post by pje »

DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

They literally don't have money in Star Trek. Their society considers itself to have advanced beyond the need for money entirely. This couldn't be further from the future envisioned by web3 people, who seem to want to further financialize, marketize, and commodify all of human experience and interaction.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#157

Post by _bfhp »

baby wrote: post #122
tux3 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, that's a good argument for why you shouldn't dismiss a show or a thing in general based only on negative secondhand impressions. The lesson to takeaway is that you should judge a thing by its own quality, not by your negative impression of the fanbase. But from that, there is no way you should conclude that cynicism is wrong in general. You should not overreact to too much cynicism by discarding criticism entirel…

I don't think that's GP's conclusion. GP's conclusion is that crypto is rooted in real innovation and the noise surrounding it gives the false impression that the tech is just a scam.

...relying on the evidence-free invention of not merely some specific fictional benefits of the technology, but a category of material improvements in the world:

> And a whole bunch of problems who we don't even realize exist that can one day be solved

Re: Web3 is going just great

#158

Post by lottin »

mempko wrote: post #53
DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

> But the math and incentives are there. Cui bono as they say. Crypto won't fail because of the group that is driving most of the demand. It's a small group of people with lots of money. If it was a big group of people with little money, you could make the case that cryptocurrencies will fail. It's success has little to do with the math and quality of the technology.

It doesn't matter, it revolves around a bizarre ideology that doesn't and can't work in theory or in practice. I suggest everybody look up the story about the cruise ship Satoshi to get a glimpse of how deluded these people are.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#159

Post by cogman10 »

pcwalton wrote: post #54
DantesKite wrote: post #13

All the Web3 criticisms remind me of my experiences with Star Trek. For context, I never watched Star Trek. I'd read stories about fans and it always struck me as the dorkiest possible show, with unabashed nerdiness making something like the Big Bang Theory look like a sophisticated work of art. But one day, I listened to a podcast about strength training and a question came up about which Star Trek leader the host l…

> It would hard for me to make a case that eventually cryptocurrency will fail. It's easy for me to make that case. Ransomware aside, there's no underlying value in cryptocurrency, unlike currencies which have the full faith and credit of governments. This is a fundamental problem that I see no way around.

Most currencies have no underlying value. The value of a dollar is drawn from dollar supply and trust that others will accept and value the dollar.

When a currency goes through hyperinflation, that generally happens because the government goes crazy printing the currency and the trust that others have in accepting the currency goes down.

If crypto collapses, it will likely be because it just becomes computationally infeasible to work with. The problem with the blockchain is that every action on the blockchain requires the whole blockchain. As time goes on simply storing the blockchain will be something that's simply not reasonable.

An issue specifically with bitcoin is that as time goes on, transferring a single coin in a day, month, or year becomes computationally impossible. Bitcoin is quickly rushing to a point where holders of bitcoin will be incapable of trading it.

That, IMO, will be the collapse of crypto. If you can't move the currency, it doesn't matter how much others value it. It'll become a game of hot potato. with the last few holders getting more and more desperate to unload the potato for money.

Re: Web3 is going just great

#160

Post by edgyquant »

deltarholamda wrote: post #94
trunnell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the math and incentives are there. Can you elaborate on this? The best critiques of blockchain tech, cryptocurrencies, NFTs, DeFi, etc. describe fatal flaws at the core of those technologies. For example, the lack of monetary policy and regulations, privacy and security shortcomings, and high transaction costs. It'd be great to read a positive analysis of the core merits (the math and the incentives) and how th…

Decentralized proof of ownership is the core merit, as I see it. That has some value, and NFTs are kind of the perfect vehicle to use the technology. But does it have any practical use? That's the question. NFTs are hot right now as an investment vehicle, or as a way for artists to sell unique creations (leading to investment vehicles, I suppose). I'm not sold on the utility, long term.

How does decentralized proof of ownership better provide for developed economies than modern monetary policy with robust tooling to e.g. ease economic downturns, prevent high (20%+j inflation and prevent hoarding of capital to incentivize investment?
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