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The Patent Pledge

paulgraham.com

151–160 of 204 posts

Re: The Patent Pledge

#151
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is own the patent for defensive purposes, not aggressive. "Patent pacifism," if you will.

This line is repeated everywhere now, and it is hard to swallow. A deterrent is only useful if you employ it from time to time to demonstrate its power. If you have offensive capacity you will be bound to use it. Guns don't kill people, People kill people. Sure, but guns make it much easier, and by design, have the capacity for landing in the wrong hands.

A deterrent is only useful if you employ it from time to time to demonstrate its power.

Are you suggesting people who own guns should kill someone from time to time so nobody will fuck with them?

Re: The Patent Pledge

#152
post #34

My personal pledge is that as a programmer I refuse to work for any company that goes on the attack with software patents, this obviously includes Apple and Microsoft. I also refuse to participate if asked by my company to help create a patent, I am willing to be fired over this. Since good programmers are a scarce resource if enough of us took this pledge it could really start having an effect.

> I also refuse to participate if asked by my company to help create a patent What if it covers an actual invention? What if it is meant to be used defensively, i.e. not for the litigation, but rather to discourage other companies from suing based on their patents?

Software inventions, no matter how original, should never be patented. Where would we be if someone had patented web-crawling or unit testing or hyperlinks or MVC? Plenty of people are getting rich, tons of innovation is going on. What are software patents supposed to be good for?

Re: The Patent Pledge

#153
post #131

I'd like to see a different Patent Pledge. One where software engineers pledge not to participate in formal patent creation. Because ultimately, all of the software patents out there were 'authored' by a software engineer. You have to have the person that actually invented the new implementation on the document. Sure, your employment contract says that any IP you create on your employer's dime is owned by your employ…

Well, you can make that commitment - in writing and verbally - when you join a company.

With most employers, the statement is "For a period of one year after leaving employment, I will review and sign all documents needed to attain intellectual property protection for work done in the scope and course of employment."

Re: The Patent Pledge

#154
I agree with pg, although I am concerned this might take away from the urge to reform software patents the real way:

I would propose to eliminate software patents, or limit their time frame to 2 years. The industry moves way too fast and 17 years is way too long. I know pg wrote that "if you are against software patents, you are against patents", but consider this: the 17 years are completely out of proportion to how quickly the software industry moves. And the pace at which they are submitted is simply too great for the patent office to do anything appropriate in most cases. When we apply the patent trade-off to it, you get a negative result, not a positive one.

The patent trade-off is essentially that the company discloses their "secret" invention to the public, in exchange for a 17 year MONOPOLY (enforced by the government) on so much as implementing this invention in any context.

In software, innovations such as "in-app purchases" or "one-click buying" may not be obvious in 1997, but a couple years later they become "incremental improvements" that are pretty obvious to everyone. In fact, OPENNESS (open source, especially on the web with HTML, CSS and Javascript) has been the biggest driver of innovation, and not patents. Clearly, there are other motivations besides having a monopoly, and those motivations don't need the patent system at all. In contrast, they are being stifled by the patent system.

No one read the lodsys patent in order to "invent" in-app purchases. They were just bloody obvious to implement when the time came. Almost any experienced practitioner in the art would have said it was obvious when they were introduced. Then Lodsys came out of the shadows and demanded money.

My point is that the very purpose of patents is being undermined. It is supposed to promote innovation, by letting companies feel safe disclosing their "trade secrets" and "secret inventions". In reality, though, these inventions are extremely obvious to everyone when they are introduced a couple years later, and all software patents accomplish is the downside of the compromise: namely, a patent troll (a company that never implements anything, but just files patents) actually comes out and leeches money from those who DO implement the innovation.

That makes innovation more expensive, and patents become like a tax on those who actually IMPLEMENT ideas -- which we all know is much more important than merely HAVING them. For up to 17 years anyone implementing this will have to pay, and is the industry better off? Not at all. It moves so fast, that in a couple years, what was patented by a troll becomes the next obvious step. Software patents for 17 years are not benefiting society.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#155
post #150
post #131

I'd like to see a different Patent Pledge. One where software engineers pledge not to participate in formal patent creation. Because ultimately, all of the software patents out there were 'authored' by a software engineer. You have to have the person that actually invented the new implementation on the document. Sure, your employment contract says that any IP you create on your employer's dime is owned by your employ…

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I usually enjoy your articles, but I don't agree with your view here at all. These kinds of pledges are not going to prevent NPE's from creating lawsuits and there will always be unscrupulous people willing to participate in the shakedowns.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#156
post #66

1. Large companies aren't on this list and are unlikely to put themselves on the list. There is no competitive advantage to be there. 2. There's a presupposition that small companies are somehow better then large companies. I can say that a company like Lodysys is likely under 25 people. You don't want to put yourself in a position where you have agreed not to be agressive with any company based on their size. Many o…

Agreed. You're the first person I found on this thread who seems to share my belief that simply white listing every company with 25 employees or under (based on headcount alone) is extremely naive.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#157
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure pharmaceuticals are an example of good patents. Most of the patented research is actually paid for by taxpayers through the NIH, and then paid for again by patients through exorbitant prices for 15 years. Then there is the problem of people in the third world dying because of the high prices charged by patent monopolies.

The patent monopolies are partly there to offset the very high costs of getting FDA approval, which are there in order to ensure safety and efficacy, to prevent people from dying from unsafe pharmaceuticals. And this causes people to be unable to afford drugs that could have kept them from dying, because the prices need to be high to pay for the testing. I'm not sure what the right balance is between caution and cost…

The U.S. FDA desperately needs to adopt the EPA's window sticker model. You can market an inefficient car, but it has to have a window sticker that tells the customer exactly what they are getting into.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#158
I'm worried that this pledge would legitimize software patents on some level.

Even if the road to a software patent-free world is a long one I think it's better to pursue that than compromise this way.

What if a company hires its 26th employee? Is that an invitation to litigate?

I commend Paul Graham on at least trying to contribute his ideas but I think we need to think more on this.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#159
There are millions of programmers in the world and most of us don't like patents. That should be enough to prohibit them by consensus. If we don't raise our voices in our own field, nobody else will do it for us.

I applaud that move.

Re: The Patent Pledge

#160
post #131

I'd like to see a different Patent Pledge. One where software engineers pledge not to participate in formal patent creation. Because ultimately, all of the software patents out there were 'authored' by a software engineer. You have to have the person that actually invented the new implementation on the document. Sure, your employment contract says that any IP you create on your employer's dime is owned by your employ…

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