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Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

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Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#151

Post by invalidname »

hiyer wrote: post #149

The Rohingyas are hardly innocent and have conducted massacres and ethnic cleansing themselves[1]. How about they sue themselves first? 1. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-e...

This is a distraction. No one is innocent. Ever. That doesn't remove the blame from the guilty party.

Your claim is similar to a guy running over me with his car then claiming I ran over someone else with a car a few years back. Two separate cases which have no baring on one another... Sounds like something a Facebook lawyer would say.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#152

Post by invalidname »

nradov wrote: post #99
abvdasker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they just passively or inadvertently encouraged it? It’s entirely possible that the algorithms Facebook has used to prioritize content highlight inflammatory or violent content. Maybe in the process of maximizing attention they simultaneously optimized for showing violent or hateful content. YouTube has been shown to have done almost exactly that.

For better or worse, passively encouraging genocide isn't illegal under US law.

I'm not so sure you're right about that... Speech has limits and Facebook has corporate responsibility. They do monitor speech in the USA and still the impact is big (see January 6th) this is what happens with zero monitoring.

They can claim discrimination and many other such claims. It seems there's a lot of evidence to support criminal negligence. If inaction led to deaths a civil suit can get a big payout.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#153

Post by Hokusai »

shadowgovt wrote: post #65
bikeshaving wrote: post #14

Between the UN fact-finding mission saying Facebook played a “determining role” in the genocide, the Bosworth memo, and the shit ton of access we now have thanks to the whistleblower, how is this not a strong case?

It's going to get into some very thick first-amendment weeds before section 230 protections are even introduced. Where do we draw the culpability line? Should Facebook have been legally obligated to ban those posts? If so, then if next week a failed coup attempt occurs in Burma to try and overthrow the military power that took control, should Facebook be held accountable for aiding and abetting the coup? We rapidly c…

> Should Facebook have been legally obligated to ban those posts?

Did Facebook promoted that posts? That seems to be the problem. High hate seems to equal high engagement that equals more money.

If Facebook profited of promoting genocide posts, that is clearly morally wrong. It can easily be also illegal and a felony.

Facebook is not a chat but a curated feed of news. Back when it started it was not like that, but when the timeline became the curated feed then everything changed and responsibility is on the curators side.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#154

Post by Hokusai »

colinmhayes wrote: post #75
ryan93 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how Facebook is liable for the actions of other adults.maybe evidence comes out that Facebook actively encouraged it. But seems unlikely.

Facebook doesn't show content chronologically. Their algorithm decides what people see. They may not have purposefully pushed pro genocide content, but that doesn't mean they aren't liable if the court finds they were negligent in building the algorithm.

> negligent in building the algorithm

Otherwise it would be a precedent for creating algorithms that break the law.

BTW, you are 100% reasonable I do not understand the down votes.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#155

Post by native_samples »

abvdasker wrote: post #54
ryan93 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how Facebook is liable for the actions of other adults.maybe evidence comes out that Facebook actively encouraged it. But seems unlikely.

What if they just passively or inadvertently encouraged it? It’s entirely possible that the algorithms Facebook has used to prioritize content highlight inflammatory or violent content. Maybe in the process of maximizing attention they simultaneously optimized for showing violent or hateful content. YouTube has been shown to have done almost exactly that.

If that's how low the bar is set then most of the US media would be legally liable for the war in Iraq.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#156

Post by hiyer »

invalidname wrote: post #151
hiyer wrote: post #149

The Rohingyas are hardly innocent and have conducted massacres and ethnic cleansing themselves[1]. How about they sue themselves first? 1. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/05/myanmar-new-e...

This is a distraction. No one is innocent. Ever. That doesn't remove the blame from the guilty party. Your claim is similar to a guy running over me with his car then claiming I ran over someone else with a car a few years back. Two separate cases which have no baring on one another... Sounds like something a Facebook lawyer would say.

Sure, I'm not saying FB is not guilty. But one of the so-called "fake news" spread against the Rohingyas was specifically this - that they committed ethnic cleansing against others in Rakhine. Turns out it was not fake at all.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#157

Post by beej71 »

diveanon wrote: post #126
ryan93 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how Facebook is liable for the actions of other adults.maybe evidence comes out that Facebook actively encouraged it. But seems unlikely.

Facebook is a radicalization engine. It is designed to reinforce existing beliefs and preferences in order to increase engagement. In this case the beliefs were virulently racists and bigoted, and the engagement was usually done with a machete.

More generally, it's an anything-that-improves-the-bottom-line engine.

And it turns out that hate, fear, and tribalism are great for that.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#158

Post by fault1 »

Hokusai wrote: post #153
shadowgovt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to get into some very thick first-amendment weeds before section 230 protections are even introduced. Where do we draw the culpability line? Should Facebook have been legally obligated to ban those posts? If so, then if next week a failed coup attempt occurs in Burma to try and overthrow the military power that took control, should Facebook be held accountable for aiding and abetting the coup? We rapidly c…

> Should Facebook have been legally obligated to ban those posts? Did Facebook promoted that posts? That seems to be the problem. High hate seems to equal high engagement that equals more money. If Facebook profited of promoting genocide posts, that is clearly morally wrong. It can easily be also illegal and a felony. Facebook is not a chat but a curated feed of news. Back when it started it was not like that, but wh…

Personally, I think Facebook's largest problem in this situation is that they were overly reliant on "AI" systems to flag hate speech, which is against their terms of service anyways.

The problem is that Myanmar up until recently (until after the genocide) wasn't even using Unicode, and Facebook only did the bare minimum to get Zawgyi-text processing up.

They also did not hire any Burmese language moderators until it was too late, in a country where Facebook more or less became synonymous with the internet. Meanwhile, Facebook had worked with local phone companies to preinstall the app on phones.

So again, I think this was growth at all costs, without thinking about the consequences, until they got enough egg on their face.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#159

Post by shadowgovt »

bb88 wrote: post #150
shadowgovt wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every forum has an algorithm (including this one, which sorts by upvotes and hides dead content unless the user asks for it).

Hacker News doesn't have an algorithm to decides what's the best posts and should appear in a person's feed. It has editors/moderators.

The contents of the main page aren't decided by editors and moderators. It's an algorithm... granted, a simple one, but an algorithm nonetheless. Weighted factor of upvotes and age.

It's even game-able, if a person has a large enough posse to dump upvotes on a topic after creating it.

Re: Class-action suit filed against Meta for facilitating Rohingya Genocide [pdf]

#160

Post by annadane »

shadowgovt wrote: post #130
bb88 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I think I agree with you, but on forums this is subtly different. In a general internet forum, it's up to you decide what you read. On FB, there's an algorithm that determines your feed, and therefore the profit of Facebook itself. If FB were connecting people, making the world a better place, and making profit by doing that, I think I'd be fine with that. But it looks like FB can trade the general good wi…

Every forum has an algorithm (including this one, which sorts by upvotes and hides dead content unless the user asks for it).

Hacker News in absolutely no way shape or form has an algorithmic system on the same level Facebook has, it is manifestly a bad analogy
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