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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#151

Post by mjburgess »

codingclaws wrote: post #114
lagadu wrote: post #29

In Portugal the law makes it so you can cancel any service using the same means that you used to subscribe it, so if they support subscribing online, unsubscribing also has to be doable the same way; same goes for via phone, personal or whatnot. It makes sense, prevents service providers from making it too difficult to terminate a contract.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

That's essentially the UK's law too -- but many arent aware.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#152

Post by quitit »

vojvod wrote: post #126
quitit wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s why they hate people that sign up via IAP - literally one click and the subscription is gone.

What's IAP?

IAP for in app purchase.

There are currently two ways to sign up for the New York times online, one is via the website and the other is via a subscription from the various app stores(an in-app-purchase).

To unsubscribe from the website-based subscription requires a call to NYT’s customer service based in New York which have limited operating hours- here they’ll try their best to convince you not to unsubscribe after waiting in a phone queue.

However if you chose to subscribe through an IAP then you simply browse to your active subscriptions and press a button - far simpler and on par with how easy it was to sign up.

Making subscriptions difficult to cancel is not new in any industry, NYT’s behaviour here isn’t unique, or even the worst example. I use it as a demonstration that even reputable companies use these tactics.

This is one of the reasons why certain businesses loathe IAPs, (regardless of the cost). When providing your details to a business there is a lot of added potential for lock in, follow-on marketing, increasing the cost at irregular intervals and selling your information to 3rd parties.

I say "regardless of the cost" because many types of digital goods have minimal costs to provide them. For example a 15% or 30% cut of such purchases is negligible when selling an in-game currency because there is no genuine cost for providing that currency. Even if the app store charged 0% instead of the 15% or 30%, the business would still be missing out on using your personal details for all of the other valuable ways they can extract money from you/your data.

To use Amazon as an example - I receive extreme levels of spam for the custom email address that I use with Amazon, many vendors I have purchased from have immediately on sold my contact information.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#153

Post by eurasiantiger »

codingclaws wrote: post #114
lagadu wrote: post #29

In Portugal the law makes it so you can cancel any service using the same means that you used to subscribe it, so if they support subscribing online, unsubscribing also has to be doable the same way; same goes for via phone, personal or whatnot. It makes sense, prevents service providers from making it too difficult to terminate a contract.

Portugal is logical on some stuff. Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this. Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light. Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

>Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself.

And then serious criminals are out of the advertising business, but can still offer consultation, business and personal protection, and, of course, forced sex labour through human trafficking.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#154

Post by Puts »

neya wrote: post #59

Fuck New York Times, I had to go through this chaos once and promised to never ever use any of their services ever again. I even went to the pain of making sure all my ad blockers were in full force when visiting the NYT. I developed a strong sense of hatred after realize what kind of slimy tactics they used to stop you from cancelling a subscription. One day, I found a loophole. I would email them requesting a cance…

There's been a lot of talk about how newspapers are dying because nobody wants to pay for digital subscriptions. I think this industry seriously gets to blame themselves for this. I've tried subscribing to a couple of magazines back in the days and with every one of them it was a living nightmare to get out of the subscriptions. Once ending the subscription one even started sending what looked like regular invoices with due date in red and everything, but if you read the fine print at the bottom of the page it just said that "this is to start a subscription, if you are not interested ignore this mail".

Generally I don't have a problem paying for culture, and I also like reading both news papers and magazines but now days I always buy them at the local news stand. I've got enough proof that newspapers and magazines can't handle the trust with personal information and payment details.

I've also always admired journalists and the craft of good investigative journalism. It's sad that these creatives are stuck with the most hostile sales people in probably any industry (except maybe phone companies).

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#155

Post by goodluckchuck »

You don’t have to wait for them to agree that your subscription is cancelled. When I call I tell them I’m cancelling and they’re no longer authorized to charge my card. If they don’t stop the charges, then it’s much easier to talk to my own credit card company and do a charge-back.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#156

Post by avian »

adrianmsmith wrote: post #6

If they do something like this, it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product. "The only reason why people would continue to use this product is... if we make it sufficiently difficult to cancel". When signing up for a product, if it uses tactics like this, I assume the product is no good, and even the producers of the product know it...

> it shows such complete lack of confidence in their product.

It can also show complete and utter overconfidence. "The only reason people would want to unsubscribe is by accident. We're doing people a favor when making it as hard as possible to make that mistake."

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#157

Post by Reason077 »

kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Same with the UK subscription craft beer service, beer52.com [1]. Subscribe easily with a few clicks, but they make you call during office hours and endure 10+ minutes on hold to cancel.

Sadly in the UK I guess we won't get the benefit of any new EU legislation to address this.

[1] https://ibb.co/r4LfK5F

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#158

Post by 0898 »

kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Fun fact: The Guardian's owner has £1 billion in assets.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#159

Post by pantulis »

t0mas88 wrote: post #77
lagadu wrote: post #29

In Portugal the law makes it so you can cancel any service using the same means that you used to subscribe it, so if they support subscribing online, unsubscribing also has to be doable the same way; same goes for via phone, personal or whatnot. It makes sense, prevents service providers from making it too difficult to terminate a contract.

Not just Portugal, this is a European thing but apparently Germany hasn't implemented it yet and will do so starting next year. That's the weird thing with some European "laws", they give countries 1 or 2 years to implement it and some countries abuse that to go and implement it on the very last day.

I can confirm this is supposed to be the same in Spain. Implementation varies across industries, of course.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#160

Post by cto_of_antifa »

csee wrote: post #132
kieloo wrote: post #18

Same thing with The Guardian. Subscribed online and was then told I can’t cancel via email and have to endure a pushy sales call if I want to cancel. Similar experience with The Economist except it was via live chat instead. These experiences honestly make me want to never subscribe to a newspaper again.

Don't subscribe again. You can read all these articles for free via archive. If they're going to be doing abusive things to you like that, you have a duty to pirate their content.

I agree. And we should also apply this ethic to even more important things society withholds from people as an act of violence: housing, food, etc.
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