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Without parental leave I might be dead

nytimes.com

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Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#151

Post by yardie »

bko wrote: post #68
speedgoose wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why US can't have better parental leave policies when Greece, France, or Mexico can?

> Nevertheless, the participation of Greek women in the labour market continues to be 8-10 percent below the average of E.U. countries Unemployment in Greece is nearly triple what it is in the US (14%). Policies don't exist in a vacuum. Everything has trade offs. Until you accept that you'll never have a productive honest conversation. [0] https://ideas.repec.org/p/wiw/wiwrsa/ersa06p257.html

If you're going to cherry pick irrelevant metrics you can also say that higher gun deaths are related to lower unemployment. Just shoot your way into a job promotion.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#152

Post by charcircuit »

Apocryphon wrote: post #135
charcircuit wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>investment for a moving truck or gas for your own vehicle at the very least, as well as taking time off of work for house and job hunting There are financial instruments like loans where you can for a fee get money which you can use now and pay back later. >Are you really calling nearly 70% [1] (or, after COVID, likely more!) of Americans "irresponsible" for having less than 1000$ in savings? Yes. I don't even have…

If irresponsibility becomes the norm, then it ceases to be an individual personal failing to be scolded for, and is instead a systemic societal issue that should be addressed.

I agree that it is a problem and should be addressed.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#153

Post by AutumnCurtain »

speedgoose wrote: post #90
bko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nevertheless, the participation of Greek women in the labour market continues to be 8-10 percent below the average of E.U. countries Unemployment in Greece is nearly triple what it is in the US (14%). Policies don't exist in a vacuum. Everything has trade offs. Until you accept that you'll never have a productive honest conversation. [0] https://ideas.repec.org/p/wiw/wiwrsa/ersa06p257.html

I don't understand the logic. Because Greece has some issues with its women employment rate, USA can't do anything about parental leaves? You even suggested in your initial post simple solutions for this problem, that work in other countries.

This is from the same poster who, when confronted with data refuting his position, said "I'm not interested in studies that show something", which says quite a lot about the value of discussion here.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#154

Post by charcircuit »

csunbird wrote: post #138
charcircuit wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because The Poors waste their money? Either that or they are not using their time well for making money. >So, The Poors shouldn't care about nutrition? cheap and nutritious don't have to be mutually exclusive >This is so naive. It means you are living a life you can't afford.

I really can not follow the logic of this thread here, especially the last sentence. When the choice is between "living a life you can't afford" and "not living at all as they do not have any money to pay rent", I think it is clear that people should try to live.

I used life in the same meaning as "start a new life" it's metaphorical. Sometimes you just need to reset everything.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#155

Post by SamBam »

bko wrote: post #100
lotsofpulp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This graph shows the gender pay gap trending down in the UK since they implemented parental leave: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor... This graph shows women's employment rate trending up in the UK: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...

Policy changes don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not interested in studies that show something. I'm interested in a mental model that results in employers being indifferent to hiring men or women when statistically women are much more likely to take a considerable amount of paid time off with restrictions set on replacing them. The model could be that employers are altruistic. Or that employers are dumb and don't realize…

> The model could be that employers are altruistic. Or that employers are dumb and don't realize this.

It's telling that your only conclusion for why companies could possibly continue to hire women is that they must be stupid or chivalrous.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#156

Post by DrBazza »

endisneigh wrote: post #60
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

Who is forcing women back to work?

> Who is forcing women back to work?

A modern Western lifestyle. Almost every Western country without fail requires dual incomes to afford a basic lifestyle.

The working-dad stay-at-home mum has long gone.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#157

Post by uniqueuid »

Apart from the very obvious argument that parental leave should be a human right and is essential to women's rights, the HN crowd might appreciate that there are significant individual and societal long-term benefits to mothers being able to care for their newborns.

Such as an estimated 2.6 point boost in IQ from breastfeeding [1] (95% CI: 1.25; 3.98)

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26211556/

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#158

Post by the-dude »

KaiserPro wrote: post #28

I really cant understand the logic of forcing women back into work after 2-4 weeks. Its just not beneficial for anyone. The mum is utterly frazzled. The employer gets half an employee back Society is conditioned to think that the only practical way to raise a baby is to give up on work/get live in care. now, to look at it from a "my mum managed, I don't want to undermine the american nuclear family" point of view: Ye…

Not all women are equal. I have seen women who gave birth just a couple of weeks before, thriving & bursting of energy in the workplace.

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#159

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bko wrote: post #100
lotsofpulp wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This graph shows the gender pay gap trending down in the UK since they implemented parental leave: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor... This graph shows women's employment rate trending up in the UK: https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...

Policy changes don't exist in a vacuum. I'm not interested in studies that show something. I'm interested in a mental model that results in employers being indifferent to hiring men or women when statistically women are much more likely to take a considerable amount of paid time off with restrictions set on replacing them. The model could be that employers are altruistic. Or that employers are dumb and don't realize…

> I'm not interested in studies that show something. I'm interested in a mental model [...]

So you're interested in theory, not reality?

Re: Without parental leave I might be dead

#160

Post by orangepurple »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #126
endisneigh wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Birthrate isn't my point. Per your chart birth rates are down for everyone. The fact remains that poor people have more children. And more to the original point, people aren't being forced to leave their children.

My point is lack of access to contraceptives and lack of women’s financial independence might be the reason poorer women have more children. My conjecture is their higher birth rates have little to do with them being poorer.

I am "poor" by choice because my wife takes care of the children in our household. Our lives are richer than those of countless lonely $ millionaires.
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