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The benefits of staying off social media

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Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#151

Post by handrous »

chartpath wrote: post #124
handrous wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vonnegut wrote about this a few times. It seems to have been something that bugged him. The short version of his complaint is that mass media, generally, have wiped out the social value of all kinds of moderate artistic talent—for example, fewer people may learn to plink out some holiday tunes on the family upright for everyone to sing along with, because you can just put on the radio, or Spotify. Live storytelling,…

This resonates with me a lot as someone who gave up music and university for programming in my early 20s. And yet, mediocre content abounds in the media. How should that be explained?

This is usually not because the artists involved are bad at what they do, but one or both of: deliberately catering to "bad" taste that is nonetheless popular, or making work worse than it could be to make the cost/demand curve line up better by saving some money on aspects that won't make more money if they're better (see: the MCU, which I actually like but which definitely avoids risks that might improve their films, and cuts corners in ways that don't matter much for the bottom line); or, organizational/managerial failure on projects that require large organizations to attempt in the first place (film is especially prone to this).

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#152

Post by micromacrofoot »

gameman144 wrote: post #131
micromacrofoot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or something, trying to make friendly conversation with another shopper next to them, along the lines of "oh that's a cool hat". And the consensus of the thread was "yeah that's awful, why would you do that, why are you subjecting them to the labor of talking to you" or such. This is kind of an American way o…

I hear this all the time I'm these discussions, but I call bunk. Sure, small talk is filler content, but you're not going to jump straight into the more meaningful conversations with people you don't yet know. The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations. For instance, maybe you got the hat at a concert in Wichita, and this person at the gas stat…

>But it's also totally fine to try to start a conversation with someone.

I would agree (and really wish I could) if most people would recognize disinterest and stop there, but anecdotally I'd say half the time it's met with anger or some form of pointed dissatisfaction. People have outright touched me to get my attention about some off-hand comment I ignored initially. It's frequent enough where I'm conditioned to start looking for an exit when I'm approached by someone in public.

It's incredibly unpleasant to feel obligated to continue small talk because you fear what happens if you don't. I can not support any kind of small talk under the reality of what comes along with it. It's one of those cases where some people ruin it for everyone else.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#153

Post by ketzo »

GDC7 wrote: post #143
ipdashc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where people consider talking to someone a chore. This bit in particular really hit me. I've noticed a rising trend around the Internet (or maybe I was just blind to it before), mostly on Reddit, of people who really do seem to consider any sort of real-life social interaction a chore and an attack. I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or somet…

> Guys... we're humans. It isn't a crime to make small talk. It's not a chore to open your mouth. Most of us consider (or used to consider; and I'm not even old) that enjoyable. What happened? We are humans, but we are also ambitious. Most people have, in their mind, a clear idea of the profile and type of person they want to be having a conversation with. Inevitably the person making the small talk is never that typ…

And, to wrap around to the original topic, I think social media can really enforce a particular vision of what that ideal conversational partner “”should”” be like, making the disappointment stronger.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#155

Post by kingcharles »

OK, so I just went to jail for 8 years and that was an abrupt disconnect from social media, which I used on a heavy basis. So, I "stayed off" social media.

I can tell you that since getting out TikTok has been one of the biggest benefits to my mental health.

We don't need to disconnect entirely, we just need a healthier limit on our use.

Now, if someone could please tell me how to break my HN addiction?! (for real)

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#156

Post by hintymad »

I would stay off social media too, as I did for years. I was a happy liberal. It was last year that changed my perspective. I found it was important to stay informed with channels outside of traditional media to know about politics, even though I had tried to stay away from politics or political news all my life. For instance, without social media, I wouldn't know that teachers in schools would tell my kids that they were born racists and oppressors just because of their skin color. I wouldn't know that working hard and being logical and studying STEM was whiteness. I wouldn't know that media was telling people that Asians were successful because they were close to white. I wouldn't know that journalists would stand behind a burning building and tell camera that people were mostly peaceful, pundits would label anyone who disagree with them and say things like "black mouth moving but a white idea running on the runway of the tongue". I wouldn't know so many politicians like Calvin Newsom and SF mayor and DC mayor would blatantly discard their own mask and social distance rules and partied and dine in public to humiliate millions of people who suffered. I wouldn't know that the crime rate jumped more than 100% of some cities yet the mayors like that in Chicago blamed everything in racism.

Without social media I wouldn't know that Democratic party had been trying to turn the US into Castro's Cuba, Mao's China, and Pol Pot's Cambodia, where people were judged not by their characters but by their birth and partisanship, and where public officials did not have to follow their own rules.

Yes I feel more pain, but the wakening is necessary. I would stay off social media if the media was not batshit partisan and would distort facts for narratives.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#157

Post by [deleted] »

gameman144 wrote: post #131
micromacrofoot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I forget the exact context, I think the conversation that stood out to me was about someone in a gas station or something, trying to make friendly conversation with another shopper next to them, along the lines of "oh that's a cool hat". And the consensus of the thread was "yeah that's awful, why would you do that, why are you subjecting them to the labor of talking to you" or such. This is kind of an American way o…

I hear this all the time I'm these discussions, but I call bunk. Sure, small talk is filler content, but you're not going to jump straight into the more meaningful conversations with people you don't yet know. The filler small talk content isn't the substance, it's the launching point for those more substantive conversations. For instance, maybe you got the hat at a concert in Wichita, and this person at the gas stat…

[deleted]

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#158

Post by rconti »

88913527 wrote: post #39
croutonwagon wrote: post #2

This may not be terribly popular, and its admittedly just conjecture, but I'm of the opinion that its less about the quantity of social media, and more how one interacts with it and even more so consumes it. Some platforms are clearly more toxic than others, though I'm increasingly of the opinion that they are all pretty toxic, just different flavors of "world outlooks" to choose from. I feel that those that actively…

I concur with your view. After taking a long break from social media, it becomes obvious what the issues are. Look at these and suggested posts for people wealthier, fitter, and presumably happier than myself. For some people, incessant exposure to that content is toxic. It makes me feel behind in life, and I feel better without constantly viewing it. When you doomscroll, it absolutely produces a positive feedback cy…

I don't question that social media isn't great, although 1990s me knows I don't need addictive algorithms to fritter away all my time online, so I tend to find those arguments a bit overblown.

But I guess I'm just missing the gene that makes me compare myself to what I see online. Don't get me wrong, I've had my share of envy and jealousy throughout the course of my life. But I don't find that looking at my friends' vacations makes me less happy with my life, I enjoy living vicariously when they go on vacation, and sharing my own when I do the same. I don't compare myself to models. I don't need a picture of some greek god to tell me I'd like to lose those 20lbs again. I've often joked that I'll probably be anxious about ending up broke and destitute right up until the day I retire. (I'm doing well in my career and financial life, it will just always be a worry of mine). But I actively avoid the kind of content where the only goal is to bragpost, and I find it quite easy, because that kind of personality doesn't appeal to me.

Is it because I follow my friends on Facebook and Instagram, rather than "influencers"? I don't really care about Lambo some middle eastern prince just bought this week, or what purses some model owns. Maybe this is why I prefer Facebook to Twitter. I don't like the default-broadcast model of Twitter, I think that's what makes it toxic. On the other hand, the default-private model of Facebook that lets me just enjoy my friends' content also creates stronger echo chambers, I suppose.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#159

Post by mistermann »

xrd wrote: post #57

This really grabbed me: "The main benefit of taking a break from social media is that you stop living in a fictional world and finally start dealing with your own reality." There is lots of quantifiable information showing that social media is bad for you. This seems much harder to quantify, but seems like the elephant in the room. Great piece.

> "The main benefit of taking a break from social media is that you stop living in a fictional world and finally start dealing with your own reality."

> There is lots of quantifiable information showing that social media is bad for you. This seems much harder to quantify, but seems like the elephant in the room.

This is perfectly reasonable, but I am personally very skeptical.

Also from the article:

>> “As painful as reality can be, it’s also the only place where you can find true happiness. Because reality is real. Do you understand?”

Plato's Allegory of the Cave precedes social media by a substantial margin:

>> Plato's “Allegory of the Cave” appears in Book 7 of his masterwork, “The Republic.” Plato wrote “The Republic,” a sustained disquisition on a utopian society, sometime between 380 and 360 B.C., during a period of Greek history known as the Classical Age.

What if the elephant in the room that is social media is actually more like a red herring, a diversion from the actual elephant in the room: human consciousness?

There are recurring themes and patterns that can be found in the comments every time this sort of article (and other sorts) pop up, the most common ones I always pick up on:

- many/most individuals speaking as if they understand The Problem, and know The Solution

- the most common solution people propose is legislation (aka: Democracy)

- there tends to be a very small set of....general thinking styles on display - it's a very slippery concept to nail down, I think of it as the complexity that falls under the general header of culture

My question is: what if everyone is wrong[1], and that is the reason that these problems never go away? What if the problem is something other than what it seems to be, and humanity never discovers it because they never thought to look for it, perhaps because they were fooled/distracted by the illusory The Problem that appeared before them (...from where - nobody asks.....as if it is has root access and is completely off the radar)?

[1] A theme or pattern that one will rarely encounter on social media: individuals wondering if their theory (ideology, whatever) is actually correct. The lack of curiosity in modern times would be shocking, if we had the counter-intuitive ability to see things that are not there.

Re: The benefits of staying off social media

#160

Post by handrous »

jimbokun wrote: post #150
handrous wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need new companies, we need open protocols to become A Thing again. For open protocols to develop and succeed, we need to modify the business environment so capturing users isn't the #1 goal of online megacorps. That probably means passing really, really strong privacy laws, and the death of mass individually-targeted advertising. I don't think we'll do that, but it's what it would take. Replacing the compan…

Technology companies were really the ones to drive new protocols, and beat the proprietary protocols in the open market. There were a lot of proprietary "information superhighway" projects by various companies, that were all made irrelevant by the success of the web.

Sure, and new companies will arise to develop and use open protocols if that's incentivized, but as long as not just attention or eyeballs, but capturing as much user activity and generated content as possible, is monetizable pretty directly (customize ads; feed your ML models to gain competitive advantage over those without the same reach into users' lives, and sell your ML capabilities), I think we're in for more of the same, even if we shuffle the chairs around.
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