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Something special is happening in Barcelona

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Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#151

Post by yawaworht1978 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #111
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #38

I used to live in Barcelona, the infrastructure is definitely anti car in every aspect, it's desired to be. For such a large city, the car traffic is minimal, there are not enough parking opportunities, especially at the beach. There would be space, but the government knows better, if you have ever been in a tourist destination in Spain during peak season you will know that there is no way to accommodate all the cars…

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own gree…

I have only been to Amsterdam and the airport in the Netherlands, it was a while ago, but no way did Amsterdam have a better infrastructure for bicycles 10 years ago than Barcelona has today. I could be wrong, but the main streets didn't have the nice two way lanes like in Barcelona and the red light, coffee shop district is similar to cuidad vella and Raval, both in spirit and infrastructure, both are not optimal for anything. I heard Denmark is on a high level too and maybe the Netherlands as a whole are much better. It has to be said that Barcelona is an exemption, Madrid and other cities don't even come close, apart from some few very rich pueblos on the coast. At least in Barcelona you can use the main roads to get tangentially near your desired destination and from there it's a bit less luxurious. I agree that left turning cars are very dangerous for more vulnerable vehicles. For example , to turn left , you have to get to the proper lane in time(not so easy, many people report map applications to have notorious delays in parts on the city), then check for ongoing traffic, sometimes the innermost are bicycles, then cars, then another lane plus pedestrians with no regards to red light green light rules. It's also true that the lanes are often interrupted by other rather large streets etc. But overall, it's a breeze going from one of the big parks to Barceloneta. Big negative point is in summer, it's no fun, the heat can be horrible, and if you are on a red light next to a bus, the fumes and other car emissions are in your face and the temperature feels like it jumped 10 deg Celsius within 3 seconds. To clarify, I am sure there are better small cities in that regard, I only tried to say Barcelona has the best solutions compared to other large cities. The negative point of course is, it's downright hostile to car drivers, some people enjoy driving a car(I don't ever own a car unless I live in a remote area).

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#152

Post by whazor »

usrusr wrote: post #125
whazor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed on the shared roads, but in cities it is better to put the cars on pillars. Removing cars from roads does wonders and makes neighborhoods look much nicer. Instead of the pillars you can remove cars from most roads and have limited one-way roads that are fast and without traffic lights. The cars can park in a parking garage and continue on foot/bike/tram. I believe this is faster for the cars as well.

> Removing cars from roads does wonders and makes neighborhoods look much nicer. Certainly not when you bury them under pillars for cars. Or is there any example where the area beneath the raised highway isn't the worst part of town? What you'd need to do is bury the cars. Side effect: less car traffic, because people tend to not really enjoy driving in tunnels. Unfortunately, it's very expensive and much of the unde…

When I say removing cars, I prefer banning them or making it very difficult.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#153

Post by yawaworht1978 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #105
yawaworht1978 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the city has very unsafe places, IE Rival, cuidad vella. The amount of ambulance sirens and police presence speaks for itself. It feels less safe than London, I have lived in 3 not so good boroughs in London.

Those areas are not that unsafe. I often walk there, even at night. Though I do try to avoid them as the pickpockets tend to hang out there because they're so touristy. And the Ramblas area is very overrated anyway IMO. Barcelona is really not bad at all for violent crime :) There's some places that really are a bit unsafe but it's more out. Like La Mina, there's been some shootings there recently: https://www.lavang…

Yes, I agree, I lived very near to the big cinemas, next to mc Donald's, cross the street and you're in Raval. As a man, it looks a bit dodgy, but walking there in the night felt ok. I have seen some wild things there by drugged up or drunk people which have left women paralyzed from fear looking into the ground, though. I know there's more dangerous areas, with proper drug houses etc and Raval etc benefit from high police presence as it's their tourist jewel, so to say. So for women and kids it might feel more scary, almost every children park has permanent drinkers, the smell of marijuana and the occasional heroin junkie here and there. I have observed some interesting discussions between dealers and police, while the police knows most the dealers, they can't do too much, but they do have an eye on them, so it's safer than it first appears.

Btw , I fully agree that the particular rambla de Raval Is tacky, overpriced and the food is just bad. The places on the beach are much better. Ah, now thinking about it, kinda miss the city, it has many good parts and things.

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#154

Post by jseban »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #67
_Wintermute wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stealing public roads", you do realise the roads are for people, not just motor vehicles? Especially in densely populated cities.

If there is a sidewalk and cycling path, then in most countries, the road is very specifically for motor vehicles.

Yeah and even if it would be strictly according to the rules, it would still be rude and completely against common sense, same thing then to walk in the middle of the road even though there's a sidewalk "the road is for everyone"

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#155

Post by GekkePrutser »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #151
GekkePrutser wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's very bicycle friendly, own parts of the roads, unobstructed by cars Only in some streets. Many streets don't have cycle lanes. Or only in one direction, and it's not really clear where to find one in the direction you're going. It's a bit of maze trying to figure it out and in the end you just end up in between the cars.. The crossings aren't that safe either because turning traffic doesn't have their own gree…

I have only been to Amsterdam and the airport in the Netherlands, it was a while ago, but no way did Amsterdam have a better infrastructure for bicycles 10 years ago than Barcelona has today. I could be wrong, but the main streets didn't have the nice two way lanes like in Barcelona and the red light, coffee shop district is similar to cuidad vella and Raval, both in spirit and infrastructure, both are not optimal fo…

The centre of Asterdam is an exception though. It's a bit of a tourist fair now, the same way the old town and Ramblas areas are here. Especially the red light district is more like an open air museum than a real city :) Yeah some 'real' people live there but it's mainly students that live there for a short time and like the novelty.

The area is just highly constrained by the canals and even as a car driver it's a nightmare to go there. It's a maze of one-way streets, closures and blocks etc. Not representative of a typical Dutch city at all. Nor comparable to Barcelona which has wide streets (ciutad vella etc excluded of course)

All other Dutch cities are very different (except perhaps for a tiny area in the center). Much more boring too though. Mostly new buildings.

But don't consider Amsterdam (the centre at least) as a measure for the rest of the Netherlands, they're very different things :)

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#156

Post by karpour »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #17

This is a surprisingly clever idea. (Or maybe I am not clever enough to come up with stuff like this.) As explained the followup tweets: By extending the route to cover multiple schools, with fixed arrival times at each destination, people can join and leave the "bike bus" as it passes through. Even regular business commuters are joining the bike bus. I love it.

Hey, I don't know a better way to contact you than replying to a recent comment. I found you via a submission from last year regarding Computer Chronicles archiving. There are currently efforts going on for completing missing metadata and re-digitizing all tapes, and I wondered if you'd like to be involved!

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#157

Post by banannaise »

opinion-is-bad wrote: post #108
creato wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's something about cyclists taking over the road that really provokes some drivers. Every critical mass ride I've ever seen blatantly ignores traffic laws, particularly running red lights. I say this as an avid cyclist and bike commuter: drivers are right to be pissed at them (but not to do something dangerous).

Being stuck at an intersection for 10 minutes as cyclists meander through does not make me want to support their cause. Seeing such a large group act in a coordinated and legal manner probably would.

They're protesting against infrastructure and laws that they see as anti-cyclist. Following the laws they're protesting against is generally an ineffective tactic, although it has also been done (with large groups of bicyclists diligently following traffic laws, which causes massive traffic holdups).

Re: Something special is happening in Barcelona

#158

Post by LeoPanthera »

karpour wrote: post #156
LeoPanthera wrote: post #17

This is a surprisingly clever idea. (Or maybe I am not clever enough to come up with stuff like this.) As explained the followup tweets: By extending the route to cover multiple schools, with fixed arrival times at each destination, people can join and leave the "bike bus" as it passes through. Even regular business commuters are joining the bike bus. I love it.

Hey, I don't know a better way to contact you than replying to a recent comment. I found you via a submission from last year regarding Computer Chronicles archiving. There are currently efforts going on for completing missing metadata and re-digitizing all tapes, and I wondered if you'd like to be involved!

Sure? I don't know if I have much to offer though. You can email me at david [at] gloveraoki [dot] net
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