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After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

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Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#151

Post by nindalf »

vinceguidry wrote: post #130
NikolaeVarius wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, is your argument really to ignore the data and go with your gut? Wow, in the past 200 years, we've seen the eradication of smallpox, treatment for Tuberculosis, vaccines for pneumonia, all issues plaguing humanity for pretty much all of recorded history. A rural farmer in Nigeria can access price data in real time using a cell phone, while democracy in India allows dozens of politicians from every state argue o…

The world is a better place... For those best positioned to take advantage. Those who aren't, can go work in Amazon warehouses.

Amazon workers are paid $20/hour plus benefits. What % of humanity had access to such economic opportunities 200 years ago? Those Amazon workers also don’t need to worry about their whole families dying from diseases (smallpox, cholera, TB), famine, and war.

What are you even talking about? 150 years ago a large fraction of the world population were slaves. You’re insulting them and your own intelligence if you think their lives were comparable to Amazon workers.

You go on one trip to Columbia and think your eyes are open. Meanwhile many of the people in this thread have lived their whole lives in such countries, including me.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#152

Post by guerrilla »

nightski wrote: post #137
jdgoesmarching wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This article is pretty clear about its intent: don’t be lulled into a false sense of economic security after the pandemic and build this experience into our understanding of our system. The first step of any solution is convincing people there is a problem. Not just the obvious “things are bad,” but an understanding that these issues are systemic in a way that challenges American ideology. These articles frus…

This doesn't challenge assumptions of capitalism in any meaningful way. In fact my impression reading it was how the author seemed to fundamentally misunderstand finance. I'd love to hear thoughts on how it would be done differently, but he doesn't get that far and rather just makes shallow statements.

> author seemed to fundamentally misunderstand finance.

Without telling us in why you think that, your comment just comes across as throwing insults around. Such a serious accusation requires evidence.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#153

Post by nradov »

dbingham wrote: post #113
qsort wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article? No, I didn't, but I'm frankly growing tired of cookie-cutter article like this one that just enumerate problems that have existed since the literal dawn of civilization. The entire "economy bad" brigade is, as parent comment puts it, "r/im14andthisisdeep". They see problems everyone else sees, but they don't have any actual insight, ju…

There are quite a number of solutions on offer - they just have a difficult time gaining traction in our media (and therefor in the public debate). Part of that has to do with the fact that a majority of those with economic and political power - those who have succeeded in the current system - still refuse to recognize that the problems are systematic. They refuse to recognize that the problems are intrinsically caus…

Many states already have usury laws which limit interest rates but in practice that doesn't give labor any more power relative to capital. Lowering limits on interest rates would just result in capitalists ceasing lending to risky businesses.

A better solution would be to increase taxes on income from interest and capital, and use that funding for education and social services.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#154

Post by _fat_santa »

mostertoaster wrote: post #125

> just a way of tabulating the aggregate desires of rich people, most of whom are at least slightly pathological, He lost me here. Guy is just a communist hoping for another Bolshevik Revolution. Maybe it is true of the uber rich, but the majority of millionaires are just normal people who saved, started a business, and just invested. If I was to judge someone character strictly off their economic status, you’re like…

I see this recurring theme in things I read from places like Jacobin and other socialist leaning places, they seem to completely ignore the middle and upper-middle class.

In every argument, there seems to be only two groups of people. The "slaves" working their 9-5 jobs making minimum wage and barely getting by, and the uber-rich like Bezos, Gates, etc.

What they never say is there are tons of millionaires, they didn't have spectacular jobs, they drive regular cars and live in regular houses. They just saved for years and years and now they have a nest egg that's worth 7 figures.

I get why no one talks about them, when you talk about the "millionaires and billionaires", you immediately think of a Bezos type, vacationing on their yacht. You don't think about the husband and wife that both drive Camry's and live in a nice suburban home with a net worth of close to $5M because they invested and saved their whole life.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#155

Post by SquibblesRedux »

I am hopeful there will be a technological inflection at which adequate nutritious food, clean water, and shelter will be freely self-sustaining for all people. I am not talking about a point at which these things are provided or paid for, but rather a point at which the appropriate technologies are plentiful and self-sustaining, much like plants are today.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#157

Post by karaterobot »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #62
soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article? I believe the author was trying to say, "Poor people are getting screwed, some jobs dont pay well, the environment is bad, lets do something and not forget it." It is a solution? No. I don't think it is trying to be though. It's just trying to be a reminder that letting everything go back to the way it was is the easiest route forward an…

While it is not completely without value, just confirming to readers that a problem they are well aware of already exists is probably the least value you can provide to them. You'd hope for more than just criticism.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#158

Post by nindalf »

iammisc wrote: post #145
vinceguidry wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an idea, capitalism, without the rent-seeking. When someone wants to do something everyone knows is wrong, we don't let them . Instead of making excuses, we hold people with power and affluence to higher standards. What a concept.

Can you give an example of the rent-seeking? > When someone wants to do something everyone knows is wrong, we don't let them. Yes. that's called enforcing criminal law, and most people would agree with it. Although, I dunno, maybe not in the past two years, it seems more people are okay with letting criminals go. EDIT: If your claim is that we don't put enough people in jail for breaking the law, I agree with you. I…

> Can you give an example of the rent-seeking?

I’m not that person but I’ve noticed this pattern in such people. Rent-seeking is anything they don’t like. So it could be landlords charging tenants rent, it could be Apple charging developers 30% “rent”, could be Google charging “rent” on the ad space next to search results, Microsoft charging for Windows even though an additional copy of Windows doesn’t cost them more to produce.

Basically it can be as broad as you want it to be. And these delusional folks say we can stop it by “not letting it happen”. Lol.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#159

Post by smolder »

p2t2p wrote: post #53
fileeditview wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. He writes about how we lived in a dream but for me what he writes is also a dream of some sort. Just stop doing our dream-work.. and then? What do I do to provide for my family? Should we all get a patch of land and grow food for ourselves? This idea does not seem realistic or scalable. But maybe I am just misunderstanding the essay or my thoughts are just not deep enough.

> Should we all get a patch of land and grow food for ourselves? A lot of those types would loooove to see lots of people to go back to subsistence. That is a lot of people but not them, they are way too smart for that and they’ll reluctangly agree to take the job of guiding lights for all those that went back to subsistence.

What is the point of vaguely placing the author in a category of "those types" and expressing your distaste for "them"? It adds nothing, and refutes nothing.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#160

Post by xboxnolifes »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #45
chasd00 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if you can keep the people living in fear with the belief their government is the only answer then they will beg for subjugation.

Comment seems to forget that humans are naturally fearful, its not some conspiracy. Just human nature

taking advantage of that is the conspiracy.
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