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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#151

Post by m_ke »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #136
m_ke wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the myth that keeps the whole thing going. For every successful exit that makes employees rich there's a 100 failures and acquihires. You should judge these deals based on expected value.

Exactly! The failure rate of startups hasn't moved out of the 90% range ... ever. https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate

Even the ones that don't fail usually don't work out that well for employees because of liquidation preferences. It only takes one down round or mildly successful acquihire to wipe out employees.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#152

Post by lazide »

erehweb wrote: post #86
Ginden wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safety nets provided by European countries are intended mainly for not ending homeless. If you are running business, your loses are opportunity costs. Eg. you have already 100k EUR yearly salary and you decide to try running startup. If it fails after 5 years, so you didn't get any money from it (eg. you had to paid debts at the end), you probably lost 500k EUR in opportunity cost. Progressive taxes incentivize risk…

The healthcare safety net is a very big one, and a big disincentive to risk-taking in the U.S.

Only for lower income earners. A great health plan is $1k-1.5k/mo, which is crushing if your savings or excess capital are in the 5 digits or less.

If you’re financially independent or wealthy enough to be (independently) doing a startup or taking on a business venture, it’s a rounding error in the books.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#153

Post by chiefofgxbxl »

VRay wrote: post #15

Man, every time I think I’ve finally caught up to the market rate, I find out I’m behind again I’m a senior FAANG coder making 350k TC, and it looks like I should be able to net 400-600k at this level if I go to Apple or Google. Hoo boy, looks like it’s leetcode time again…

> looks like it’s leetcode time Haven't searched for a job in a few years, but would consider based on TC.

Are all these good-paying software jobs behind the "leetcode firewall", even for non-FAANG? I guess my willingness to practice on leetcode would be partly driven by potential TC reward, but I really would like to be judged on the merits of the development I've already done for previous companies instead of having to memorize solutions to esoteric problems I'm never going to have to solve on the job.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#154

Post by zuhayeer »

KronisLV wrote: post #14

As someone who works in an Eastern European country, i also did a writeup on how much i've made over the years and how that figure has changed, while working for a local company: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/on-finances-and-savings In short, this year i'll probably make around 18k Euros, in total. I guess that just goes to show how different the situation is depending on where you live and where you're employed.

Engineering salaries are somewhat trimodal, and this piece helps shed some light on the completely different spectrums the three different categories companies can fall under: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/software-engineering-sala...

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#155

Post by ceras »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #80
jiggawatts wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the... s%&#? Half a million a year for a developer or architect is bonkers. That's the equivalent of AUD 800K a year. That's more than what the Prime Minister and a cabinet member put together make here! How can that possibly make sense? For that kind of money you can easily hire 4 senior developers here! Any company "hiring local" at those prices isn't exploring their international staffing options properly...

Facebook seems to be aggressively searching for remote workers outside of the US if my inbox is any indication. I imagine others in the US are too.

Facebook is also aggressively expanding in expensive markets like NYC. So it looks like they aren't all-in on arbitrage.

Google too: they just bought a large new building in NYC, yet they're also growing a lot in markets where they pay much less (e.g. India).

Very curious how this will play out over time.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#156

Post by gavinray »

i1856511 wrote: post #40

How many people go into programming now simply for the money? More than 70%? What percentage of programmers would still be programmers if competitive salary was not a concern in life, and people were free to simply pursue their passions?

This is the most depressing/soul-crushing thing you discover if you're passionate about programming your entire life and then finally break into the industry.

You realize you're the weirdo, and after years of everyone else being blatant about really not caring, it starts to wear on you.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#157

Post by MrKristopher »

erehweb wrote: post #95

Say you have $400K of public company stock that vests over 4 years. How much is this worth? (ignoring time value of money for now). $400K? But if the stock tanks then you likely have the option to get another job, so you are less affected by the downside than the upside. How should that factor into your calculation?

It would be hard to find a job that pays $400k cash (yes I'm aware of Netflix) so there isn't much need to put a specific cash value on the RSU component for comparison. You're typically comparing two job offers which both have an RSU component.

RSUs have a volatility component (so discount the value for that, depending on the value of the grant vs your net worth), but also RSUs generally appreciate over the vest (it's not too common for a stock to be down over a 4-year period) which is a plus.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#158

Post by tashoecraft »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #136
m_ke wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the myth that keeps the whole thing going. For every successful exit that makes employees rich there's a 100 failures and acquihires. You should judge these deals based on expected value.

Exactly! The failure rate of startups hasn't moved out of the 90% range ... ever. https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate

And if you do happen to be part of the 10% that make it odds are you won’t get paid out as much as if you had just gone and worked for a FAANG.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#159

Post by moneywoes »

Rapzid wrote: post #94
rootusrootus wrote: post #31

In other news, if you aren't in the valley or working for one of the big tech companies, you're probably making 100-150K as a mid/senior developer. There's a pretty sizable leap.

Probably but not necessarily. Don't aspire to be most software engineers if you don't want to get paid like most software engineers haha. I'll add a data point. I live in a 90 COL index city(I don't live in a 90 area though) and will clear >300k this year total cash comp at a non-FAANG company working remote. Earlier this year I had a 200k base salary offer for a staff full stack eng role at a startup(that just raise…

How many YOE do you have? Any suggestions for finding these re mote jobs?

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#160

Post by sharpy »

erehweb wrote: post #95

Say you have $400K of public company stock that vests over 4 years. How much is this worth? (ignoring time value of money for now). $400K? But if the stock tanks then you likely have the option to get another job, so you are less affected by the downside than the upside. How should that factor into your calculation?

Conversely, it can work out great for you.

For example, Amazon stock used to go up 30-40% a year reliably. Compensation model was "conservative" and estimated 15% a year.

So if you stayed at Amazon for a while, you could be paid very very well, thanks to stock appreciation.

For the risk adverse, a strategy is to sell the stocks as they vest, effectively treating it as cash. Companies will also issue additional RSU, if stock tanks too badly, as they'd be losing people otherwise.

Personally, I worked for Amazon and Microsoft for a number of years, and have kept all my RSU. It has worked out great for me (at least on paper).

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