Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#151

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #139

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

I've looked at properties in Austin area a few months back. It's more affordable than CA, but it's still way out of reach of most non-HQ staff that Tesla employs. I've read the stat that property values have gone up 43% due to exodus from locked down blue states over the course of just the past year. Couple this with Texas' higher than average property tax rate (_especially_ in Austin area) and you've got some pretty…

> FWIW, I'm looking at FL now instead.

Miami? Or joining the much more quiet Jacksonville or Tampa Bay exodus that this dubious survey based entirely on LinkedIn data claims:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-06-01/austin-is...

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#152

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

NikolaNovak wrote: post #31

temp8964 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Tesla a progressive company? And what does that mean?

I thought I indicated that in literally next sentence; Musk is building companies to change future and disrupt status quo in general (so opposite from the most generic definition of conservativism which seeks to preserve it) ; and specifically Tesla is a company that builds a product that in small way obviates what Texas exports and lives on

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#153

Post by Johnny555 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

gfitz wrote: post #110

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

I don’t think housing would be the “official” reason as Elon is keenly aware of how hard it is to buy a house in central Texas right now. Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-austin-texas-housi...

As the official spokesperson for the company, if Musk says it's "housing", then housing is the official reason.

It may not be the real reason (which probably has more to do with his feelings about California in general and maybe proximity to SpaceX's Texas facilities), but it's the official reason.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#154

Post by m4rtink » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

With these moves I understand the companies might have good reasons for that (costs, nu-favourable laws, etc.) but it always bothers me what happens to the employees ?

Do they just "raise the anchor" and move with the company (if they do actually physically relocate, which does not seem to be really the case in this instance) ?

Maybe that's normal in the US but the though of having to leave your friends, parts of family family, house/flat and familiar environment in general because your company decided to relocate somewhere else is frightening! Of maybe that's just my central-European perspective.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#155

Post by hindsightbias » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

Wait until they see their property taxes and valuations jumping 20% a year. No Prop 13 there.

I loved Austin, and lived there twice, but you can stick a fork in it now. Maybe in 20 years when they’ve finished the I-35 reimagining.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#156

Post by newacct583 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

mosdl wrote: post #91

gautamcgoel wrote: post #48

What I'm really curious about is what happens to Austin (and to a lesser extent, Atlanta, Raleigh, Denver, SLC etc). Does Austin become the next Bay Area/next Seattle? Crazy high housing prices, and high homelessness/crime? If so, how long does that take, and what happens to native Austinites? If not, what prevents history from repeating itself?

Austin already has plenty of homeless people, and the #s are quite comparable to san jose for example - they are just more visible in the bay area due to lax rules for them (plus weather).

> homeless people [...] are just more visible in the bay area due to lax rules for them

I'm not normally someone who picks on phrasing, but this one is a little orwellian. The implication is that, while homelessness is endemic basically everywhere, the proper "rules" for them to obey are that they are not to be seen. And enforcement regimes that allow them to exist in public are "lax"?

Yikes.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#157

Post by deadmutex » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #97

prepend wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla employees lots of people who pay income tax. Capital gains is taxed on the residence at time of sale, not time of purchase. So if Musk sells when he’s not a resident of CA, he won’t pay CA taxes.

That's not actually true - California will probably consider this California income because he earned it while in California.

Are you a tax lawyer by any chance? or is this just guessing?

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#158

Post by pvarangot » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

etchalon wrote: post #141

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

As someone who just bought a house in Austin this year, if the reason is "affordable housing", they're in for a world of hurt.

I talked to several Tesla and former Tesla folks that will probably relocate because of this, and the say is that since Austin in less NIMBY than the Bay Area new housing will get built and prices will go down. It's a more complex bet than just "we move there because houses are affordable now".

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#159

Post by asdff » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

etchalon wrote: post #141

Apocryphon wrote: post #56

The official reason is because of housing: "To be clear we will be continuing to expand our activities in California," Musk said. "Our intention is to increase output from Fremont and Giga Nevada by 50%. If you go to our Fremont factory it's jammed." But, he added, "It's tough for people to afford houses, and people have to come in from far away....There's a limit to how big you can scale in the Bay Area." https://ww…

As someone who just bought a house in Austin this year, if the reason is "affordable housing", they're in for a world of hurt.

Property taxes are higher than California, right? I can't find the source handy at the moment, but I've heard that a house in Austin that looks like a couple hundred grand cheaper than an equivalent house in California for the listing isn't actually any cheaper when you factor in the increased taxes and potentially other costs I'm not aware of.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#160

Post by jeffbee » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 12:39 AM UTC

abduhl wrote: post #96

jeffbee wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. People don’t get this because tax policy is dominated by right-wing memes but tax load for median families is way higher in Texas. Property tax rates on the median house are higher, while the effective income tax on the median income in California is very little. Median income tax burden in California is ~$350/yr.

Does the median family own their house? If not, then property taxes are not a relevant issue and if your argument is “median income tax gains are offset/overshadowed by median property tax losses” then you’re just wrong.

Yes, the home ownership rate in Texas, California, and the US as a whole is over 50%.