EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones • Hacker News Board

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#151

Post by ksec » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

jonplackett wrote: post #103

hungryforcodes wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't really know that -- USB-C hasn't been out long enough. I can tell you that for durability I hate lightning, because it always seems to have connection problems after a while and the plug itself seems overly complex for what it does. I can't recall ever having any such connection problems with micro USB or USB A for example. In general it's easy to see also that the lightning connector itself is far more expo…

This is weird. My experience has always been the opposite. I’ve broken lots of usb-c cables with the metal bit coming loose. Lightening hardly ever. Any connection problems are usually pocket lint in the hole and fixed with a paper clip.

Same here, I have had lots of broken Lightning Cables, but never the connector. While I have had lots of USB-C connector issues.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#152

Post by adamors » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

dfcowell wrote: post #60

oaiey wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck believing that the next regulation in that spirit will not target wireless charging. The motivation on this regulation is the waste produced by endless stream of chargers. wired or not, does not make a difference in that thinking. But it will give them some years.

iPhones are already compatible with iQ charging, the dominant standard for this kind of thing.

But you cannot use a Qi charger for the Apple Watch.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#153

Post by foota » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:09 AM UTC

foxfluff wrote: post #147

I feel like there's bigger fish to fry. There's more and more li-ion appliances and tools, most with proprietary chargers (think all the power tools), and in many cases no user replaceable battery packs (e.g. vacuum cleaners). It really sucks that I need a new charger + battery if I want to use some bosch or dewalt tool instead of a ryobi or whatever I happen to have. And I can't use these tools' batteries to power U…

I think that's a lot harder problem, since there's a wide variety of needs that general batteries will have, vs smartphone chargers (and not even smartphone batteries)

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#154

Post by ksec » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:10 AM UTC

hexa22 wrote: post #117

IvanK_net wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about what connector is better. It is about everyone using the same connector. I believe if Apple allowed others to use their connector for free, they could "beat" USBs and become the only existing standard.

The lightning connector only supports usb 2.0 so even apple binned it on the iPads now.

The lightning connector is perfectly capable of supporting USB3.0, ( and they did at one point in time ), but it just doesn't make sense when iPad's ecosystem are more general purpose and requires interaction with USB-C, from display port to memory sticks.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#155

Post by fmajid » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:11 AM UTC

The EU has been talking about this for a decade or more. Time to act.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#156

Post by kergonath » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #99

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lightning connector is a more physically robust one than USB-C. The male lightning connector is a single flat piece; the female connector is a hole with the contacts on the top + bottom of the port. Compare to USB-C, which has an exposed "tab" in the middle of the female connector, and the male connector has a matching "hole" in the middle. This makes USB-C more vulnerable to e.g. dust collecting, and damage of t…

>USB-C more vulnerable to e.g. dust A trouble with lightning is the dust etc. gets stuck in the phone socket - I've had to replace two at like £50 a go. Getting a new cable is often easier.

A paper clip or a cocktail stick is enough to clean a Lightning port with dust in it. No need to change anything.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#157

Post by seszett » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #6

selfhoster11 wrote: post #2

Good. We need this. The USB-C connector is capable of providing laptop-grade power supply, and Apple is the only straggler that I know of.

I think it’s a horrible idea. It means moving to a future, better standard (let’s say, USB-D) is neigh impossible as it would require a change to an EU directive (that is: 27 countries need to agree on it). Just getting this into law has already been in the works for years and years, if the EU had worked a bit faster we would have been stuck with micro USB-B, which would have been unfortunate.

> 27 countries need to agree on it

No, this has to be voted by the parliament like any law, not approved by each member.

> getting this into law has already been in the works for years and years

The goal was to not require a law and make manufacturers agree to a standard without legislation, because that makes it easier to evolve.

Apple is the only one that wouldn't agree to that, so that means it has to become a law apparently, otherwise they won't do anything.

If a new standard appears, I expect the USB-IF to notify the EU while they're working on it so that legislation can evolve in time. The EU parliament is very quick to pass new laws when necessary.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#158

Post by ksec » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:15 AM UTC

foepys wrote: post #13

mschuster91 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's Apple reasoning for not abandoning Lightning for USB-C on their phones? People having a lot of legacy MFi stuff. Car docks and stereo systems in particular are expensive to replace.

They didn't see this as a problem when they introduced lightning and USB-C on their macBooks and high-end iPads, though. Instead you were supposed to buy more future electronic waste in form of dongles.

>They didn't see this as a problem when they introduced lightning

Apple now ship more lightning cable in a single year than all the 30 Pin exist in the ecosystem combined. The scale is just different.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#159

Post by Arnt » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #22

Arnt wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was, and quite a success, and probably encouraged the current step. It changed a problem from "find the right charger" to "will this charger charge this phone quickly or slowly?" with hardly any problems. Someone will post a link to that Google engineer who tested cables, and there was a manufacturer who supplied non-USB power via a USB plug (can't remember which voltage but it wasn't 5V1A), but on the whole, a gr…

If only USB-C PD was less of a mess...... Somehow my 25W USB-PD original genuine Samsung charger doesn't charge my 2021 iPad Pro which normally uses a 20W USB-C charger...it just makes no sense.

Sure. I too have a device that "won't" charge from a particular charger. The device and that charger negotiate some ridiculously low effect, and the device turns on its screen while charging. The net effect is awfully close to zero, sometimes it's negative.

But compare it to the mess phone chargers were in 2005.

Re: EU plans to force OEMs to use a common charger for all phones

#160

Post by ThatPlayer » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 10:16 AM UTC

mrsuprawsm wrote: post #143

ThatPlayer wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Lightning was superior, the new iPad Mini and new (and previous) iPad Pros wouldn't be using USB-C rather than Lightning.

I think that the idea of the USB-C port on the iPads is to connect external devices. These are more likely to have a USB-C something (e.g. USB-C -> USB-[micro|C|A]) cable that people already have lying around, as opposed to lightning -> something cable.

From the perspective of Apple though, that's another adapter for them to sell. They already make a lightning -> USB-A adapter.

And the idea of a common, readily available for most people, port is exactly what this legislation is about. It should apply to charging cables for phones too.