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Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

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Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#151

Post by OrvalWintermute »

beaner wrote: post #61
glogla wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have universal national healthcare here, and people still take ivermectin because (someone on) Facebook told them to. Before that it was Hydroxychloroquine including one major newspaper running articles on how it helps with COVID (which not only it doesn't but it is illegal to run advertisements on pharmaceuticals around here). So I dunno if US medical system has much to do with it. It seems more like someone weap…

Why do you mention hydroxychloroquine as if it were snake oil? At least some hospitals here administered it as part of their covid routine, ostensibly because they believed it helped according to the science.

Unfortunately, hydroxychloroquine, like Ivermectin, has become politicized. Although a Gilead shareholder with a bias towards Remdesivir, I know that the cost and infusion method (IV) makes Remdesivir much less likely to be used and contraindicated for home use.

I hope this rampant politicization of drugs stops before it hits the important drug classes like ACE2 inhibitors, bronchodilators or anti-inflammatories.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#152

Post by dataflow »

jimbob45 wrote: post #113
dataflow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like when the CDC first said that masks are ineffective to try to keep people from hoarding them. The way I remember it was more like, the CDC said: - They don't know yet if surgical (and in general, non-N95) masks are effective against COVID-19 spread. They never denied this for N95. - Hospitals are running out of surgical (and N95...) masks, and given the above, people should stop hoarding them. That seemed.…

There’s an idea with masks where preventing any infection or virus that you could contract while stricken with COVID will shorten the period of time you have COVID and thus shorten the window in which you are contagious. That was always true and will always be true. Even if COVID flows right through masks, there will still always be a plausible reason to wear them.

Sure, and if we had an overflowing supply of masks I'm sure they wouldn't have told people to stop buying them.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#153

Post by nkozyra »

gorwell wrote: post #126
swang wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are not conflating it. they literally describe the difference in the article you posted. > Dr. David Boulware of the University of Minnesota says the drug’s side effects are mild at two or even three times the usual human dose. But formulations for farm animals might contain 1,000 times what’s safe for humans. People need a prescription for Ivermectin (human dosage) but since they can't do that. They're taking t…

Ask yourself: why does the big photo only show the veterinary version? Why do so many headlines classify it as horse paste medicine? They are fully aware most people only read the headlines or above the fold. They bury mention of human dosage to have plausible deniability, knowing most people won't ever see it. As for Merck, they are creating a new, patented version for Covid use. They want ivermectin discredited bec…

> Why do so many headlines classify it as horse paste medicine?

Because, convinced in the absence of evidence, some people are acquiring it by the path of least resistance, which is farm-related retailers.

Some ask their doctors. Some of those doctors say sure because it's relatively safe. Others say no because they point out there's scant evidence it's effective.

The worst part is people are taking this in lieu of a vaccine because they're so convinced that it's ineffective or gene therapy or experimental and dangerous, etc. We're not dealing with data based reasoning. It's an emotional response rooted to some degree in American partisanship.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#154

Post by Isamu »

fallingknife wrote: post #23
haswell wrote: post #13

Disclaimer: I am not implying I buy into the theories about ivermectin being an effective treatment for COVID. This feels like another situation where the attempts to quell disinformation are having the opposite of their intended effect. Depending on where these people first learned of this drug, there is some pretty confusing information floating around. When someone like Bret Weinstein points out that ivermectin is…

It's like when the CDC first said that masks are ineffective to try to keep people from hoarding them. People are wise to the game now, and expect that the CDC is saying things to influence behavior, rather than because they are true. Nobody trusts a salesman.

Unpack the word “effective” used here. It is still the case that ordinary cloth masks are less effective than higher grade masks.

As a health official you are weighing the question: do we advocate a sub-optimal approach on the grounds that it is better than nothing, when we know a large segment of the population will be militantly non-compliant anyway? There were anti-mask protests back in the Spanish Flu days too.

Point being, it’s not a binary thing, and there’s some consensus that has to be built in the early stages.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#155

Post by zepto »

Griffinsauce wrote: post #142
zepto wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the difference between those that take drugs based on Facebook posts and those who take drugs based on TV adverts?

Multiple things can be bad.

Sure but drug advertising is ubiquitous so it’s not a valid criticism to attack people for being influenced by a particular channel.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#156

Post by tomnipotent »

zepto wrote: post #150
tomnipotent wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it ANY different from the current situation other than your own personal opinion? Moving the goal posts doesn't help your argument. > Yes, you are mistaking politics for science. This isn't very convincing. What makes your position non-political or more scientific? Talk about dishonesty.

> How is it ANY different… How is what any different? > What makes your position non-political or more scientific? Talk about dishonesty. What position have I claimed is non-political or more scientific?

You mean like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin?

So because Trump talked about the former that somehow makes it political? What a weak argument.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#157

Post by tlogan »

haswell wrote: post #128
tlogan wrote: post #98

Really crazy times: - doctors say: take a vaccine but people say “I don’t trust big pharma” - random guy say take ivermectin and people say “great I trust pharma”. Merck is marking tons of money now. So this is all about packaging of the message. I think the only way to convince people to take vaccine is that Binden (and democrats) starts telling people not to take one… This is just beyond stupid and this is all resu…

To be fair, ivermectin is an old drug with a well established safety record ... when using proper human dosing. The COVID vaccines are only just getting their first full approvals. If someone is evaluating the drugs purely on their long term track record of safety, ivermectin wins by a long shot. But none of that really matters, because the problem is about efficacy. It might be "safer" to take ivermectin in a vacuum…

> To be fair, ivermectin is an old drug with a well

> established safety record

But then why these crazy doctors are saying not to take it? Conspiracy? I guess we not should trust these "doctors"...

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#158

Post by zepto »

tomnipotent wrote: post #156
zepto wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it ANY different… How is what any different? > What makes your position non-political or more scientific? Talk about dishonesty. What position have I claimed is non-political or more scientific?

You mean like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin? So because Trump talked about the former that somehow makes it political? What a weak argument.

> So because Trump talked about the former that somehow makes it political and not scientific? What a weak argument.

I think you should re-read the thread. The only person talking about Trump here is you.

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#159

Post by OrvalWintermute »

rdiddly wrote: post #79
gorwell wrote: post #15

Conflating veterinary horse paste ivermectin with the human version of ivermectin is one of the most brazen lies I've ever seen from the American media, who is actively pushing pharmaceutical industry propaganda. Just one of many examples this week: "Joe Rogan has told his Instagram followers he has been taking ivermectin, a deworming veterinary drug formulated for use in cows and horses, to help fight the coronaviru…

The "debate" is hilarious, overblown and infantile, like always, but yeah the facts are pretty simple: Great for worm problems (river blindness being a worm problem). No reason thus far, other than wishful thinking, to believe it's good for anything else.

Ivermectin is an antiparasitic, but it also has well-known antiviral properties too [1] [2]. Chose a study that did not relate to C19 since I think we all hate HIV/AIDS, Dengue Fever, and what was once a scourge in Yellow Fever.

As with any other drug, it is important to consider Ivermectin toxicity [3]. That would be my primary concern for the general population taking veterinary sized doses intended for large animals. I would never do that - I would talk to a doctor, preferably an infectious disease doc that has experience treating this malady, and get a prescription for it, and follow dosing instructions.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3327999/

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22535622/

[3] https://books.google.com/books?id=P4U0cEel-54C&pg=PA196&lpg=...

Re: Doctors and pharmacists ramp up calls for Americans to stop using ivermectin

#160

Post by tomnipotent »

zepto wrote: post #158
tomnipotent wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin? So because Trump talked about the former that somehow makes it political? What a weak argument.

> So because Trump talked about the former that somehow makes it political and not scientific? What a weak argument. I think you should re-read the thread. The only person talking about Trump here is you .

Then explain why one was political and the other not? I'll wait.
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