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Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

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Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#151

Post by monkeybutton »

bdowling wrote: post #101
lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

> one of the positions was actually only posted for someone internally This is extremely common. A company can't allow for nepotism or favoritism, so it requires a public posting for any open position. Qualified external applicants see the posting and apply. The managers hire the internal candidate they wanted to hire anyway. It's all a huge waste of everyone's time. I'd bet that a large percentage of job postings ar…

In Ottawa the federal government is required to post jobs publicly like that and people were still gaming it by opening the posting for just a short period of time and telling the preferred candidates when to apply. Now there's a minimum number of days they have to be up.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#152

Post by mywittyname »

nicoburns wrote: post #77
jonfw wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And in the longer term- it builds stronger incentives for employees. Most devs, if HN is any indication, believe that jumping ship every 1-2 years is the best way to move up. But if you have senior devs who were juniors at the same company just a few years ago, you'll probably be more likely to stick around.

> if you have senior devs who were juniors at the same company just a few years ago, you'll probably be more likely to stick around. I've had some bad experiences with this one. The devs in the senior positions had only ever worked at this one company, and they'd learnt a lot of bad habits that they then proceeded to enforce on the devs in junior positions, who despite having fewer years of experience were in many ca…

I think this goes to the importance of promoting on talent, not years of experience.

Good developers look at what they've done, and critically analyze what is good; what can be improved; and what needs to be replaced. It's these people that you want to promote and provide with enough autonomy to do what needs to be done.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#153

Post by castlecrasher2 »

Jochim wrote: post #122
castlecrasher2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, companies tend to hire management for outside perspective; especially in my field, data engineering, companies build up but get to a point where no one internal knows how to proceed properly and so are better off hiring externally. I agree that doing so can be a mistake, but at times it's necessary, and likely less of a risk than promoting internally.

Does no one know how to proceed properly or are existing management just not willing to listen to the rank and file? I'm watching this happen right now as a third party. The C-suite have brought in a bunch of expensive contractors who run perennially late and have done nothing but regurgitate generic flavour of the month blog posts rather than engaging with the people involved in the process that have actual experien…

Believe me, I've been in your shoes multiple times. I suppose I've resolved that instead of being frustrated as I have been in previous roles, I should simply take advantage of it and be aware of those biases if the situation arises for me.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#154

Post by insomniacity »

pitterpatter wrote: post #132

I can certainly relate to this. I spoke with the hiring manager of a new role for which I ticked all the boxes in terms of the sort of skills and qualifications needed. I'm talking years of relevant experience with the hiring manager agreeing I was more or less perfect for the role. Except one thing, the role was posted at a higher level than I currently was and they just weren't willing to expend the political capit…

I once applied as an external, rejected on grounds of being too experienced/senior. Then later heard they went the other way and hired someone more junior than me, by their own measure!

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#155

Post by BeFlatXIII »

yobbo wrote: post #148
vkou wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the natural consequence of a world where performance is difficult to measure, people are largely fungible, and next to nothing that you personally do will move the needle in whether your employer will be successful. In that situation, why wouldn't you hire and promote your friends? All of the incentives are aligned for doing just that.

> why wouldn't you hire and promote your friends? Furthermore, do you want your colleagues to be motivated by loyalty or by competition?

Loyalty, obviously. Competition means focusing on competing with other employees and not focusing on the company's goals.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#156

Post by rnoorda »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #16
chipgap98 wrote: post #8

Yeah presumably people who are applying for an internal transfer/promotion are looking for a change in their role. If they get rejected then they are likely to look around outside the company for a similar opportunity.

This was my first thought (that the effect is just due to correlation with people already being unhappy with their current position, rather than specifically being caused by the rejection) but the article says this which seems to potentially suggest otherwise: > Second, a rejected candidate’s likelihood of leaving was cut in half if they were passed over in favor of an internal candidate, rather than an external cand…

I can understand this. The last time I didn't get a promotion, I saw the coworker that got it and thought, "Yeah, that makes sense, she's great for that role and more experienced than I am." I didn't feel slighted the same way I may have been if it were someone completely new.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#157

Post by Shorel »

dahfizz wrote: post #29
etempleton wrote: post #24

I think hiring externally is often over valued in many organizations today. There is a number of reasons for this, but one is that if you hire someone external they are more under your control than an internal hire who already has ideas of how things should work and relationships and therefore has their own amount of political clout. A new hire has no reputation to lean on so must be a bit more cautious at first. Ano…

There's also the simple fact that an internal hire is strictly more work for management / hr to deal with. If a certain position is filled from an internal transfer, that transfer leaves a new open position. Eventually, you need a hire a new person. A chain of internal transfers beforehand is just extra people to train and more paperwork to deal with.

HR are lazy. Noted.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#158

Post by arcticbull »

lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

Aren't folks unhappy at their current roles likely to seek other roles internally before looking externally? It sounds like they are more likely to (a) already be unhappy (b) become extra unhappy when a transfer is denied and (c) that leads to them setting off into the sunset.

I suspect that these aren't the folks companies want to keep in the first place.

On average of course, there will be exceptions. Not trying to imply anything about you, OP.

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#159

Post by yhoiseth »

insomniacity wrote: post #154
pitterpatter wrote: post #132

I can certainly relate to this. I spoke with the hiring manager of a new role for which I ticked all the boxes in terms of the sort of skills and qualifications needed. I'm talking years of relevant experience with the hiring manager agreeing I was more or less perfect for the role. Except one thing, the role was posted at a higher level than I currently was and they just weren't willing to expend the political capit…

I once applied as an external, rejected on grounds of being too experienced/senior. Then later heard they went the other way and hired someone more junior than me, by their own measure!

That sounds… perfectly logical?

Re: Rejected internal job applicants are twice as likely to quit

#160

Post by victor9000 »

lvspiff wrote: post #76

After reading the article one thing that struck me was the " internal candidates who were rejected after interviewing with the hiring manager were half as likely to exit as those rejected earlier in the process." Working at a fortune 100 top 10 company I've applied for multiple higher level positions after 5 years and multiple high marks on my reviews and not gotten 1 recruiter call. I did get with one recruiter and…

Do recruiters get the same commission or bonuses if they hire internally? If not then there's your answer.
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