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American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

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Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#151

Post by whimsicalism »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #106
nostrademons wrote: post #14

My college had a decent-sized contingent of Bulgarian & Romanian international students. The difference in their math abilities upon entry was striking. While most of my American-born classmates struggled in discrete math, linear algebra, and vector calc, my Bulgarian friend was like "I learned this when I was 9." They were frequently tapped as TAs by the professors, because they understood the material on a level th…

I'd be wary of forming an opinion on foreign education systems from international students, as they're generally of more privileged extraction compared to the unwashed masses who can't afford to study overseas.

Absolutely this. People seem to ignore selection effects when taking with immigrants from other countries, especially students. These people typically come from the richest/most connected families in their home country*

*If they don't come from the Americas

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#152

Post by whimsicalism »

ardit33 wrote: post #17
rrss wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, do you recall which ap physics course you took?

I don't remember exactly, but it was the most advanced they offered. This was in Virginia, in 98-99. My teacher (Mr. Norris) was excellent, but it was clear that the overall course was something that I had done years before back in Albania. Since I knew a lot of things already, I was probably a bit annoying at class (having always the response), but I made some good friends in that class.

This is interesting. I studied physics at Harvard with many of the best of the best, there were a few from Romania.

I would be surprised if those people could be solving AP Physics C problems by 8th grade. 1 & 2, easily of course, but C is quite different.

If you found calculus BC hard-ish and physics easy in comparison, I think you were taking 1 & 2 as C was much harder. SAT II physics is a joke.

Virginia probably has some of the best STEM education in the entire country, at least the northern bit. Certainly better than what you can get at most schools outside of some in California, the boarding schools, and NYC magnets.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#153

Post by b0rsuk »

nme01 wrote: post #93
b0rsuk wrote: post #84

Some education systems put an emphasis on critical thinking, some on absorbing tons of information. Polish education is notable for memorization. One area where it doesn't seem to hurt is medicine. It appears Polish doctors and nurses are very much appreciated when they migrate. Perhaps critical thinking is not a useful skill in medical practice? Once upon a time I was reading an article about Polish migrants in Norw…

I’m pretty sure you’re a Pole who emigrated as self-hatred is probably the most common thing for Poles.

No, I'm considering it. I need to travel more and compare before I make up my mind. It's unsurprising many people migrate because they're fed up with their country. Financial incentives is just another side of it, because it's demoralizing to work long and hard hours and be paid little. However, plenty of Poles migrate that can reconcile their desire for high wages with uncritical admiration for their country.

The country has taken an authoritarian turn. The aspects that annoy me personally is lack of critical thinking, lack of insight when it comes to history (it's a second state religion in practice which is two too many), low trust, bigotry, corruption, double standards, shallow XIX century understanding of patriotism. There's focus on "moral victories", heroic sacrifices and losing battles. Contempt is something very common in society - it's like everyone needs someone they can despise. Constructive criticism is very unwelcome and met with denial. Compromise is often called "rotten compromise".

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#154

Post by tw20212021 »

rogalact wrote: post #119
gnat wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the students bring any motivation to the classroom? Like, is there a culture of "study hard and pay attention in maths and sciences, because that's how we escape poverty" or something like that? Here in New Zealand, middle class parents put a high premium on being happy and fulfilled, and most (that I've seen across several schools) don't really prime their kids for academic success by saying "this is important, w…

In Romania, from what i recall, it was usually the beatings. Didnt like math? The teacher would simply use the pointing stick to smash your hands. I was fortunate enough to have liked math but some weren’t. And so there were the beatings. Those attending “olympiads” were brainwashed into thinking that somehow they were superior and at some point we had to look down upon those whom, god forbid, chose something else bu…

You are exaggerating, I've never seen a beating in school (from a teacher to a pupil). Was in school in Bucharest from the 90's to 00's, had loads of maths and other stem classes. If you didn't keep up you'd get a bad grade, if you didn't pass the year you'd have a chance to correct it during summer school, and worst you'd repeat the year. Nothing uncommon here. And I don't share your hate against the ones competing in the olympics, I knew lots of them, later on they went into research, got jobs at Google, did PHDs at Harvard and Princeton and the likes and are now professors at top universities. And some of them are good entrepreneurs now, you'd be surprised.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#155

Post by whimsicalism »

colechristensen wrote: post #27
lucas_codes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is dumbing down science teaching the fault of extreme progressive left and not, say, reduced education funding, favouring religious teaching, or even more likely, nuanced policy difficulties that don't fit nicely into a left/right divide?

Here you go: https://www.noodle.com/articles/let-s-get-rid-of-special-edu... Inclusive classrooms raise scores of the lower performing students. That's probably true. It glosses over what it does to people on the other end of the spectrum. As someone from the other end of the spectrum, growing up never having to put any effort, having few or no peers close to my level, and being constantly encouraged by the people ar…

The evidence does not suggest measurable harm for those on the other side of the spectrum from inclusive classrooms. Maybe there is some harm, but if so we haven't been able to devise a test or experiment that can find it.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#157

Post by whimsicalism »

credit_guy wrote: post #49
lucas_codes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is dumbing down science teaching the fault of extreme progressive left and not, say, reduced education funding, favouring religious teaching, or even more likely, nuanced policy difficulties that don't fit nicely into a left/right divide?

Take New York City (which I'm familiar with, but it's likely the story is similar in many other places): - each public school has the same budget per student. There is no "reduced education funding" for schools in district X vs district Y, or for any school, because the budget per student is equal. Each school's budget is public, and published on the web. - favoring religious teaching: at least at the school my kids…

It's funny how they lead with the useless info in that question.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#159

Post by DrBazza »

Went to university in the UK, met a bunch of Russian post-docs whilst I was a researcher, and they were some of the best mathematicians I'd met.

Not unrelated, but today in the UK is A-Level results (for 18 yr olds), and the UK press and exam boards, as usual are reporting it as the 'best results ever'. This happens year on year.

There's a lot of argument about education standards getting lower in the UK. My "anecdata" is that I was the first year to sit GCSE maths exams at 16 yrs old, and we went through old O-level papers from the mid 1950s onwards (aimed at 16 year olds) to practice. Those O-level papers had advanced calculus that we didn't learn until our final year of A-levels. Those old papers were much harder.

tl;dr in the 50s/60s 16 year old Brits were taught advanced calculus. They're not now.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#160

Post by beojan »

lordnacho wrote: post #116
laputan_machine wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK maths teaching is fairly terrible. Not only do they start later, it's almost never taught meaningfully, instead relying on memorising rote formulae. I grew up hating maths, it wasn't until YouTube came along and the sheer amount of _good_ maths content on there that I started to 'get' the bits I just never understood as a teenager. Most of my friends will still say things like 'I just don't get algebra / I don't d…

What are the relevant channels? My kid is very interested in it but the 3B1B type stuff is a bit too far ahead. He wants to learn algebra next.

Try the Murderous Maths books.
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