The surreal experience of my first developer job • Hacker News Board

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#151

Post by karmicthreat » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #111

karmicthreat wrote: post #99

My first paid developer job was writing backend code for what I would later learn was the Canadian mafia. I was doing some backend and embedded work to build super shitty gambling kiosks for them. They already had some person "managing" project and the Indian contract house that was building flash games for the kiosk. He was useless, so I was stuck figuring everything out. Including getting things running on a then o…

Working for the mob can be a good deal. Basically no oversight into what you are doing because they don't have the technical knowledge to judge your work. Overpay (if sometimes irregular), and easy hours. As long as you don't "know" they are doing anything illegal with your work, and no one can prove that you know what they are doing. It can work out. The worst part about it is they try to make up for their lack of t…

Working for the mob is a tenuous deal. Because you probably don't know unless you are involved in illegal things. BUT like many business owners they are kind of desperate because they can't hire good talent easily.

So it could be an option (for some people, and maybe not even good), but really unless you can deal with stress and people well it won't go well. I was able to learn to deal with both pretty quickly. And I credit some of that early experience to being able to just dive into projects I know nothing about.

But it can all go sideways pretty quick. I have a feeling that is more common. Plus you don't want to be involved in an investigation.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#152

Post by mattbee » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

rwmj wrote: post #13

There are lots of these half-arsed tiny tech companies in the UK (I've worked for a few). I wonder whether this is true all over the world, or is a peculiarity of the UK? It could be that we don't have a culture of VCs who would fund a company to the required scale and provide adult supervision. I remember when I ran a company, raising money or even getting a bank loan was impossible. (We just ran it on a shoestring…

Can confirm, I co-founded and ran one.

I spent an inordinate amount of time trying not to be That Boss, and I'm sure 50+ ex employees could pick plenty of failures on that front.

Still, our nearest competitor was run by a sketchy Napoleon who's now awaiting trial for rape and sexual assault. The bar for being a good tech boss in the UK is really quite low.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#153

Post by Cederfjard » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:17 PM UTC

mmarq wrote: post #145

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>UK IT salaries are really low Maybe compared to the crazy US salaries you see here, but compared to continental Europe, CoL adjusted UK salaries are difficult to beat and also you have a lot more interesting opportunities there vs here where it's mostly small web-shops or big name consultancy sweatshops. Wanna see low (CoL adjusted) tech salaries? Try Spain/Italy/Austria/France where they shaft you with high taxes a…

In the past few years IT salaries in continental Europe have increased significantly and, adjusted for the cost of life, German salaries are significantly higher. French and Spanish are almost on par. If you make less than 40K£ in London, you are likely to experience a form of poverty that is unseen in the continent (pests in your flat, revenge evictions, very very bad healthcare, etc…). Outside of London, salaries a…

When you say ”very very bad healthcare”, are you referring to the NHS?

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#154

Post by chihuahua » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #51

This reminds me of an early job I had. Except my boss was closer to retirement age and had basically earned a great deal of money as an industrial sales rep. His whole business was basically providing sales staff for big industrial manufacturers. I actually went in to pitch him to become an investor in my small startup that was in the education sector. He was immediately interested but wanted me to also help him with…

Buying MLM energy drinks (and indeed any MLM product) is a very bad sign.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#155

Post by sulZ » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #109

kebman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard similar with the cleaning industry in Oslo. Ahem, regular cleaning, not the other kind.

Sorry, I don't get what you or parent are referring to. Are these supposed to be some references to mob run businesses or something?

To give you an explicit answer - yes.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#156

Post by alibarber » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:44 PM UTC

mmarq wrote: post #145

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>UK IT salaries are really low Maybe compared to the crazy US salaries you see here, but compared to continental Europe, CoL adjusted UK salaries are difficult to beat and also you have a lot more interesting opportunities there vs here where it's mostly small web-shops or big name consultancy sweatshops. Wanna see low (CoL adjusted) tech salaries? Try Spain/Italy/Austria/France where they shaft you with high taxes a…

In the past few years IT salaries in continental Europe have increased significantly and, adjusted for the cost of life, German salaries are significantly higher. French and Spanish are almost on par. If you make less than 40K£ in London, you are likely to experience a form of poverty that is unseen in the continent (pests in your flat, revenge evictions, very very bad healthcare, etc…). Outside of London, salaries a…

I 'earned' about 24K (equivalent before tax - as a stipend) as a doctoral student in London. Yes, once we had a mouse in the flatshare, but this is ridiculously exaggerating things.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#157

Post by beachy » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:48 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #97

gjvc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I had read this several years ago. This is the kind of thing which everyone instinctively knows but somehow forgets with age, or ignores due to circumstances (like needing a job having just been made redundant). I swear that CEOs like the one mentioned here specifically prefer hiring those who are in need like this, with the predictable awful behaviours. Some people will get lucky, but I expect that they are t…

I know of a case when the salesman-CEO sold a freaking demo . (Helped the company to stay afloat, but the devs had to work hard to turn it into something of a product as fast as they could.)

I feel as CEO that's what I'm always doing.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#158

Post by mmarq » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:49 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #148

mmarq wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past few years IT salaries in continental Europe have increased significantly and, adjusted for the cost of life, German salaries are significantly higher. French and Spanish are almost on par. If you make less than 40K£ in London, you are likely to experience a form of poverty that is unseen in the continent (pests in your flat, revenge evictions, very very bad healthcare, etc…). Outside of London, salaries a…

If by Europe you mean only the super expensive cities like Paris, Amsterdam or Munich, then yeah salaries maybe have increased, but to what good when property price increases have far outpaces whatever salary increases the industry may have seen. And most who stayed at one job haven't gotten any significant salary increases unless they job hopped often which brings it's own problems later in ones career. Edit: Had a…

A senior dev in London makes 60-80K, so it’s almost the same without cost of life adjustments. Outside of London, economy-wise, you are likely to find places more similar to eastern Europe than to Bavaria.

80K€ in Munich is a good salary, considering that you don’t have to pay for private healthcare (in the UK you have to), education is free (in the UK it costs a fortune, either in private school fees or in housing premia) and rents are much much lower than in London (for equivalent properties).

Taxes are higher in Germany, but not extremely so if you account for child deductions and family support. A family of 2 in London making 80K per annum, will spend ~20K to send a child to a random nursery, 5-6K£ in healthcare and 2K£ in public transport (just to name the first 3 thing that come to mind), and will be much poorer than a German family making 50K€ per annum.

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#159

Post by walrus01 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

jlg23 wrote: post #114

gkwelding wrote: post #32

This literally could have been written by any developer in the UK. I think most of us start out like this! I think the best one was a company I worked for in Leeds, it was building a secure learning platform for schools which ultimately fell flat on it's arse. The company was run by a self-made millionaire who was notorious for scamming people. He'd randomly lay off huge numbers of the sales team, and the first anyon…

> we'd have to ring the "office manager" (ex-SAS) I'm not sure what's the fetish with the SAS, but I apparently know more people who where in the or with strong ties to the SAS than regular British folks... OTOH, after knowing some actual members of various special forces for 2 decades: If they saw action, they don't brag. They are usually shy to admit anything even if it is not classified. Or the other way around: T…

> > we'd have to ring the "office manager" (ex-SAS)

That's when you ask "What colour is the boat house at Hereford?"

Re: The surreal experience of my first developer job

#160

Post by dnh44 » Wed, Aug 04, 2021, 8:03 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #109

kebman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard similar with the cleaning industry in Oslo. Ahem, regular cleaning, not the other kind.

Sorry, I don't get what you or parent are referring to. Are these supposed to be some references to mob run businesses or something?

The garbage collection business in NY is notorious for being run by the mafia. "Cleaning" is a euphemism for the hitman business, at least in movies or pop culture.