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My small revenge on Apple

javierantonsblog.blogspot.com

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Re: My small revenge on Apple

#151

Post by wayneftw »

spinningarrow wrote: post #2

Seems a bit petty to me. As a developer I empathize with the possible lack of documentation (I don’t know, I never tried to integrate Sign In with Apple) but as a user I actually am super happy with it. Nowadays any iOS app that doesn’t support logging in with Apple makes me think twice about whether I really need the app.

Apple is the most petty entity that I have to deal with on a regular basis. They refuse to automatically capitalize the words Linux or Windows but they'll practically force you to capitalize the phrase "app store" even though they don't have a real trademark on it. They'll try to change your vocabulary from "installing" to "side loading" just to protect their business model. They'll reject your app for looking too different. They're so petty that I think there's probably another word that I should be using to describe the level of pettiness that they've reached. Machiavellian perhaps.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#152

Post by GeekyBear »

webmobdev wrote: post #119
shellac wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Petty and hysterical. The part where the developer puts the word 'privacy' in scare quotes is a bit of a red flag for me. Suggesting that "accept[ing] two "social logins": Google and Facebook. All was well." does not fill me with confidence that the developer respects privacy concerns.

Only the naive and the ignorant believe that Apple cares about users privacy. All their "privacy" features are just designed to collect more and more data about its users. Even unnecessary data. And they get away with it because of marketing that leads people like you to believe that they can be "trusted" with your data - the same data they use, and will use, to make more money. They have already restarted their adve…

Apple Maps:

>“We specifically don’t collect data, even from point A to point B,” notes Cue. “We collect data — when we do it — in an anonymous fashion, in subsections of the whole, so we couldn’t even say that there is a person that went from point A to point B. We’re collecting the segments of it.

The segments that he is referring to are sliced out of any given person’s navigation session. Neither the beginning or the end of any trip is ever transmitted to Apple. Rotating identifiers, not personal information, are assigned to any data or requests sent to Apple and it augments the “ground truth” data provided by its own mapping vehicles with this “probe data” sent back from iPhones.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/29/apple-is-rebuilding-maps-f...

Google Maps:

>Google Maps won't let you save home address without allowing all Google tracking

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18070183

and

>An Associated Press investigation found that many Google services on Android devices and iPhones store your location data even if you’ve used a privacy setting that says it will prevent Google from doing so.

https://apnews.com/article/north-america-science-technology-...

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#153

Post by CrendKing »

zapzupnz wrote: post #99
hoseja wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why then should Apple have monopoly on harvesting emails?

If you have an Apple ID, you’re already implicitly trusting Apple to use that data appropriately. Apple doesn’t sell its user data. So anybody who is using Sign In with Apple trusts Apple to do the right thing. Besides, what monopoly? Apple is perfectly happy with other single sign ons — provided you also offer Sign In With Apple.

If Apple is perfectly happy with other sign on, then privacy is certainly off the table. Otherwise, they wouldn't allow apps in their store offering any other sign on (extreme analogy would be apps with virus in it). Then why force developers to add Apple sign on even they don't want to, instead of just encouraging? They can easily do so by telling developers that "apps with no Apple sign on are allowed, but are placed low priority queue so the review process will take longer".

It is pretty standard "embrace, extend, and extinguish" strategy. Similar to what's happening in the browser market. They are waiting for majority of the apps to have their sign on and majority of users use Apple sign on, then update the policy to disallow other methods.

I mean I don't have any issue of Apple doing these in their own ecosystem, but at least don't be so hypocritical or naive when defending them.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#154

Post by mrweasel »

danpalmer wrote: post #63

Similar to how in-app purchase/subscription fees of 30% just _does not work_ for certain kinds of business with certain kinds of margin, Sign in with Apple has limitations far beyond other social sign-in systems that mean it is a complete non-starter for certain businesses. Like us. We have Facebook sign in (appropriate for our market), but couldn't integrate Sign in with Apple because the email private relay limits…

> we use the email address as a fraud signal for some payment providers.

I'm sorry, I understand that that is not your point, but an email address is a terrible fraud signal.

Also, if anything having the email go through an Apple relay, means that the user have an iCloud account, which seem no more risky that a random Gmail account.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#155

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

gowld wrote: post #115
pjerem wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also if they ever get locked out from their oauth account they can use the email to create a password and login via the normal way. This is exactly my point ! You can't recover your account if you don't know the mail used for registration. Even if you remembered it, no check could be made if Apple stopped to proxy the mails for one or another reason. With other providers, you could always recover an account because…

What if my email address stops getting mail for one or another reason?

Then it loses marketing value and data hungry companies no longer care

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#156

Post by wayneftw »

zapzupnz wrote: post #99
hoseja wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why then should Apple have monopoly on harvesting emails?

If you have an Apple ID, you’re already implicitly trusting Apple to use that data appropriately. Apple doesn’t sell its user data. So anybody who is using Sign In with Apple trusts Apple to do the right thing. Besides, what monopoly? Apple is perfectly happy with other single sign ons — provided you also offer Sign In With Apple.

> provided you also offer Sign In With Apple.

They are using their app store monopoly to gain a foothold in the single sign-on business. You could try to claim that there's no business there but look at how Microsoft got spanked for giving away a free browser. Now the Apple has over half the phones in the United States, I'm looking forward to them getting spanked very soon hopefully.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#157

Post by ksec »

RL_Quine wrote: post #124
webmobdev wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the naive and the ignorant believe that Apple cares about users privacy. All their "privacy" features are just designed to collect more and more data about its users. Even unnecessary data. And they get away with it because of marketing that leads people like you to believe that they can be "trusted" with your data - the same data they use, and will use, to make more money. They have already restarted their adve…

They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data? There's a vast array of technical instances where apple has gone above and beyond to implement privacy preserving technology, even when they weren't talking about it. This is, like the OP, hysteria without any basis in fact.

>They implemented end to end encryption in iMessage to collect more data?

iMessage backed up on iCloud where Apple has key to decrypt.

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#159

Post by collaborative »

dmitriid wrote: post #132
collaborative wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, I couldn't care less about whether you trust the app or not The fact is, I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. I am passionate about E2E encryption so I have integrated loads of that in the app too The only purpose an email address serves is password recovery. Period TBH I am a bit tired of people trusting big tech so much. They are businesses, meant to make money. I make no money and…

> I send 0 emails and privacy and security are top priorities. I am passionate about E2E encryption so I have integrated loads of that in the app too - "privacy and security are top priorities". and then - Wants to force users to only use the least private log ins: via Facebook and Google - Is pissed when privacy-conscious users hide their emails via Sign-in with Apple > I am a bit tired of people trusting big tech s…

I am going to assume you haven't read/understood everything I wrote

I don't force users to use Google/FB. They can use traditional email signup just fine

Emails could be masked before Apple ID came along. Namely, gmail addresses let you do this. So it's not anything new or revolutionary. Users could use that to sign up for Groups before

I would have probably ended up implementing Apple ID, but the fact that they forced it in a most discorteous manner frankly p**d me off. When someone does this kind of stuff you need to remember and try to curb their behavior where possible. That's what I'm doing

ps. I don't trust FB or Google either

Re: My small revenge on Apple

#160

Post by ksec »

Toutouxc wrote: post #57
rovek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your second quote conveniently chops out the main point of the article, which is that Apple abuse their dominance to force developers into having no choice.

Because dev experience isn't what my post was about. I don't agree with some of the ways Apple treats developers, but I mostly agree with how they treat users and I genuinely like (MacBook) or at least understand and respect (iPhone) their products.

That is until you have Keyboard problem and Display problem from MacBook Pro 2016 where it was clearly a design defect.
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