151–160 of 160 posts
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At this point HTML is quickly turning into not a markup language
I miss writing HTML instead of telling Javascript how to create the HTML that I would use. I preferred JQuery's $(' ') vs document.createElement('element').append(document.createElement()) bullshit
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> proper announcements in ALL the relevant mailing lists and release notes. I can't emphasize enough that mailing lists are worthless for this. Your average web developer reads no mailing lists, I'd be surprised if even 5% did, and those 5% are going to be clustered. Release notes (that anyone reads) come too late, since people only read them once users are already installing the broken browser. Announcements that yo…
Announcement of SameSite=Lax by default was good. They were posted on web.dev.
I try to pay attention to upcoming potentially breaking changes, but I didn't know about the iframe changes (luckily they didn't affect any of my projects). I did hear about the SameSite changes from multiple sources, it felt like there was a real effort there to try and break the news into the mainstream.
I also think a big part of what made SameSite=Lax better was that it wasn't just Chrome notifying people about the changes, it was other developers in the community helping to spread the word. I saw multiple blog posts and Twitter threads warning about it.
I don't think the model of "Chrome announces something then wipes its hands and steps away" works in the real world. Developers need to be included in efforts to spread awareness, because there are communities that the Chrome team doesn't have access to, and not everyone pays attention to what the Chrome team posts. It's better if multiple stakeholders both inside and outside of Chrome are invested in getting the word out.
It sounds to me like a big part of the complaint about the removal is that there isn't currently a good replacement for `alert` in intro tutorials, or a clear process for sites that depend on `alert` to quickly move to something else. I don't expect the Chrome team to understand that in advance, the web is enormous and they are going to miss use-cases, no single team can predict the full impact of every browser change. But early awareness of changes and early interaction with communities outside of the main mailing lists will make it more likely that developers and communities raise these issues so they can be addressed before there's a PR fallout.
alert is also broken in other way. When triggered by onblur, it causes infinite loop. But the bug is marked as WontFix because "Chromium team highly recommends that you not use JavaScript dialogs". https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=666205 https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/03/dialogs-po...
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and both Firefox and Webkit were in favour of the spec change. They could oppose, but then Google would just spread propaganda about how their browsers are "less secure" or whatever. There's really no choice for other browsers at this point. From the point of view of neutrality, the whole "origin trial" thing is seriously messed up. You are effectively having to ask for permission from one megacorp to treat your site…
To try and restate this, in case I misunderstand: You believe that Apple and Mozilla are rubber-stamping anything Google asks for because they’re afraid of a Google marketing campaign. Have I accurately represented your beliefs?
Haha i love the tone deaf, dontgiveashit responses of the chromium team, just trolling devs: [... Dev engages in paragraphs long rant detailing their intricate use case and why it's so essential not realizing the chrome team doesn't give a shit...] We implemented an origin trial to temporarily opt out from the blocking. Would this solve your concerns while you migrate your app? If so, please see ... But if it doesn't…
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Hmm, the linked bug is from March 2020, and this thing will be Removed in December 2021. That's nearly 2 years, no?
Yes, and yet people were still caught off guard. Which is in some ways even worse to me, because what were they doing for those 2 years? When someone maintains the largest browser in the world, and almost every public website in the entire world relies on maintaining compatibility with that browser, then the standards for reaching out about breaking changes are a lot higher. The amount of time is only one aspect of t…
What everyone always does, which is put it off until the last minute. Also, unless there's actual breaking change, people often don't notice, hence putting it behind a Chrome Origin Trial for the last 6 months forcing people to actually address it.
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Who the hell is in charge over there, and what compels them to incessantly break the web? Google has a vested interest in doing so, and change is their weapon; it keeps control of the web in their hands when no other organisation has enough brute force to keep up with their changes.
Idk why everyone jumps to these paranoid conspiracy theories - alert() box to trick people has been a thing for decades, and its super rare for it to be used legitly outside of debugging.
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Idk why everyone jumps to these paranoid conspiracy theories - alert() box to trick people has been a thing for decades, and its super rare for it to be used legitly outside of debugging.
> its super rare for it to be used legitly outside of debugging Simply false. This change broke several of my companies apps, and it broke Salesforce, and God knows what else. And it's not just a layout problem; it's material behavior which changed.
take 1: Salesforce is already a broken heap of fertilizer
take 2: Hmm, didn't Google try and fail to acquire Salesforce?
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> And it's not possible to reach out directly to those people. We can't just send deprecation notices to random contact emails (if there's any) on websites. To be clear, we're talking about Chris Coyier right now. The Chrome team doesn't have any way to contact him? The team had to know that REPLs would be impacted by this, right? You can blame people for not having the right automation and dev tools lined up and for…
> To be clear, we're talking about Chris Coyier right now People are just human, they will fail to understand changes sometimes and their impact. Or maybe, they're just not going to be listening at all. Or they saw it, and then a coworker interrupted them and they forgot. If you tell people that the Earth temperature is going to raise 1 degree, most will just glance over it and not understand the ramifications. In th…
This is so, so illustrative of the problem with the Chrome team's attitude - I'm not sure you could imply "the web is for businesses, amateurs should get out and just consume" any more heavily if you tried.
Haha i love the tone deaf, dontgiveashit responses of the chromium team, just trolling devs: [... Dev engages in paragraphs long rant detailing their intricate use case and why it's so essential not realizing the chrome team doesn't give a shit...] We implemented an origin trial to temporarily opt out from the blocking. Would this solve your concerns while you migrate your app? If so, please see ... But if it doesn't…
But I also get the point of view of the chrome Dev team if it's something like they just choose to not deal with so much feedback from people. I do the same thing that's why I disable issues on my popular open source projects....