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WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

reuters.com

151–160 of 203 posts

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No jobs are or will be lost, and very little utility is lost, except being able to sign up for 1-2 weeks. Contrast that with the quote from the article: "Shares in Tencent plunged 9.0% in Hong Kong on Tuesday amid widespread market jitters over Chinese regulatory crackdowns on high-growth sectors, including online platforms and, most recently, private tutoring. Hong Kong's benchmark Hang Seng Index (.HSI) fell 4.2%…

Tencent is not a cash starved company, and these stocks will recover at least mostly if not fully.

[deleted]

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My experience of people in China-- admittedly a long time ago-- was they are generally very patriotic or nationalistic, like Americans. They appreciate the CCP and what it has accomplished. They have a strong domestic arts industry making movies, books, games. Sure lots of people disagree with the party, but that doesn't that they want a western liberal democracy. Having been on the inside, it's not that they don't…

Anecdotally, western democracy was seen as a means to an end for many “common folk Chinese”. The end is prosperity. Now that the prosperity gap has drastically closed (also there are more clear paths to prosperity), the desire has also dissipated. China has also seen a China-like society in Singapore achieve a very strong economic and social outcome with authoritarian government, so western style democracies aren’t t…

I don't think Singaporean politics is particularly well regarded within China. In fact, it reflects the same issues as with the CCP and its authoritarian system. The Singapore system is seen as a necessary evil given the geopolitics of the region and the racial makeup of the city-state. The CCP is seen as a necessary evil to propel China into advanced economy status. This is just how things are.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#153
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, liberal democracies have had many recent failures, but they're still the most prosperous societies on a per-capita basis by a gigantic margin. If an authoritarian or non-democratic country can achieve over $40,000 GDP per capita, then we can revisit.

that's true. but none of this is happening in a vacuum. liberal democracies are also the ones trying to change or destroy non-democratic regimes by force. imo you can sum up everything evil China is accused of, and it would not come close to what we pulled in South America, the Middle East, and Asia I'm all for a fair comparison. And as someone who currently benefits from Western ideals of personal liberties, I'd be…

> imo you can sum up everything evil China is accused of, and it would not come close to what we pulled in South America, the Middle East, and Asia

I know you said Asia and that includes China, but Western countries (and Japan) did similar things to China in the 19th and 20th centuries:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#154
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the CCP has nothing to replace this cultural vacuum with. They want to legislate a return to "old" (post 1949) values by banning foreign tutors, suppressing dissent on WeChat and Weibo, and doing generally authoritarian shit to encourage nationalism. Meanwhile, young, educated people almost exclusively consume the cultural products of the West, Korea, and Japan. And they find the North Korean styl…

> exclusively consume the cultural products of the West There's more penetration of western media and products in PRC, but vast majority of consumption is still domestic even among educated. And trends show the young are more nationalistic than ever, especially among those with more exposure to the west. >North Korean style propaganda embarrassing. The disconnect really cannot be understated. Yeah, folks are embarass…

On the one hand, they're right to cringe at the tone-deaf socialist era government communist propaganda. "How do you do fellow kids" with a communist flare. Clearly produced by cadres in their 60s in a communist bubble.

On the other hand, the current nationalist Chinese bubble is not that much better. Listening practice on Bilibili would be a lot better without the equally tone deaf comments about how all their neighbors are puppets of the US without any personal agency and owe their culture and history to 5000 years of glorious Chinese civilization. The current anti-Chinese sentiments in the west would be far worse if your average American spent even 30 minutes on Chinese websites. They can complain all day about how biased BBC is towards China (arguably true), but I don't see CGTV overtaking BBC globally in popularity anytime soon. One whiff of that smug self-superiority is enough to make anyone regret learning Chinese.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might think so, but slacking now seems to be considered to be dangerously rebellious[1] by the CCP. 1: https://qz.com/2019322/why-lying-flat-a-niche-chinese-millen...

That's different, the "slacking" of which you speak is a kind of dissent. What I mean by "political disengagement" keeping a distance from political issues and otherwise "saying withing the lines," so to speak.

I see what you mean, it's "going through the motions" without trying too hard, compliance but not enthusiasm.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#156
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When educated Chinese people were better exposed to ideas about liberal democracy, they were very clear that they wanted it This falls flat for me. So the implication is that there are no educated Chinese today with exposure to liberal democracy? I think we take for granted the supposed superiority of a system that empirically has delivered many recent failures.

> This falls flat for me. So the implication is that there are no educated Chinese today with exposure to liberal democracy? I think we take for granted the supposed superiority of a system that empirically has delivered many recent failures. I'm not saying "no exposure," I'm saying they were "better exposed" in the past. You can even see changes like that happening in Hong Kong now, under the new crackdown on civil…

Educated Chinese generally speak some English, they are way more exposed to our system/culture than we are to theirs.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#157
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naively, it looks like the CCP sees the influence and heft US tech exercises on the US population and world at large. The CCP will forgo economic might (in this sector) for social stability and control every time. They do not want these titans to have more power or influence than they have so they rein them in and let them know who holds the straps.

It is simple rule of authority system, not rule of law system. The only way to win is to give the party members enough shares or bribes so that they like you and see you as the member of the club. Chinese authorities are especially thin skinned and will see moves like this also as the win against any criticism.

lol, you are so wrong here. If the way to win to give party members enough shares or bribes then any of the regulatory actions the past year wont happen.

Ant's case: treating Ant like an financial institution. Setting standards on capital requirements, lending standards etc. Perform financial pressure tests similar to banks. Ant lends money, issues ABS, of course they are a financial institution, should subject to the same rules as anyone else. Upside: reduce financial risks, especially if there is economic downturn. If a financial crisis like the 07 crisis happens, the wealthy might be fine, but the middle class people might lose their jobs, their mortgaged house, their retirement investments into companies that are bankrupt. So preventing a financial crisis is protecting people's livelihoods. The government action shows its not afraid to halt a multi-billion dollar IPO to do this.

Alibaba: establishing Alibaba had "dominate position" in E-commerce industry based on market data between 2015 and 2019 and as such, require seller exclusivity is against anti-monopoly law. Upsides: Make this scenario as a precedent, deter future cases from happening. Reduce the dominate player's ability to bend the rules to hinder competition. Allow more choices for sellers, the majority of which are small businesses. Alibaba's seller exclusivity harmed both competition and the sellers.

Tencent: Establishing Tencent's taking majority of controlling stake in 中国音乐集团, resulted in Tencent being dominate position in online music service. It is illegal under anti-monopoly law for not reporting such transaction for review. And by anti-monopoly law, state council can order the entity to take action to reduce its market consolidation. The action ordered is Tencent cannot sign exclusive music licensing with upper stream suppliers. After Tencent's transaction, it signed exclusive music licensing with Warner, Sony and Universal. This has been devastating to competing music services, Netease cloud music, Xiami music, etc. Upside: Establish precedent. Ensure there is room for competition. Good for competitors.

The advisory on Meituan and food delivery platforms: Attempt to address some key public concerns about food delivery platforms. Food delivery workers extremely overworked by delivery platforms, low pay, lack of safety, insurance protection, and practices such as penalizing delivery workers for late deliveries while over stuff them with orders. Upside: good for delivery workers or other gig workers. Also good for companies because the government is not making drastic changes that destroy the fundamentals of their business. Instead, it is issuing a sensible plan of action that are not too costly for the companies. Also calls for them to investigate different approaches to solve delivery workers pain points.

The advisory on K12 education outside of school: This is a lot more controversial. The background is that most Chinese students spent their time outside of school, during weekends and summer break, in some kind of prep classes, it could be English, math, etc. Chinese parents sent their kids to these prep classes hoping their kids can get ahead of others. When I was growing up, as a primary schooler, my Saturday is Violin class, a English class, my Sunday was a math class and a English class. My summer weekday is all English and Math classes. I heard parents would sent their kindergarten kids to prep class teach grade 2 material. The thing is the prep classes is now a huge industry. Prep class companies market to parents and kids, telling them things like you can get ahead others, you need come to us to learn to get good grades to go to university. Parents spent huge amount of money on "out of school" classes. Another issue is, as these "out of school" classes and companies earn a lot of money, they can pay their teachers much more than public school. So good teachers are leaving public schools, resulting in decreasing quality, more kids have to take "outside" classes, creating a vicious cycle, adding to kids time burden and parents financial burden. The most dangerous thing this creates is segregation of education quality based on economic class. Parents with money can send their kids to place with best education resources, while parents without money send their kids to public school with lower education quality. The new k12 education advisory is about trying to return education to its public, universally benefiting nature, reducing the profit seeking tendency. It is also trying to reduce parents and kids access to "out of school" education and strengthen public school education in order to give kids more non-study time. But time will tell the impact of these policies, what are the positives, are the negatives too harmful, and unintended side effects. "advisory" in China are different than laws. They are kind of best effort, are negotiated and discussed about during actual implementation. And these advisories are updated frequently when they need changing. This is a big reform of education scene, if it is successful it will create a more healthy atmosphere for Chinese kids to grow up in and less burden on families.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, western democracy was seen as a means to an end for many “common folk Chinese”. The end is prosperity. Now that the prosperity gap has drastically closed (also there are more clear paths to prosperity), the desire has also dissipated. China has also seen a China-like society in Singapore achieve a very strong economic and social outcome with authoritarian government, so western style democracies aren’t t…

I don't think Singaporean politics is particularly well regarded within China. In fact, it reflects the same issues as with the CCP and its authoritarian system. The Singapore system is seen as a necessary evil given the geopolitics of the region and the racial makeup of the city-state. The CCP is seen as a necessary evil to propel China into advanced economy status. This is just how things are.

Singaporean political academies trained 50K CCP cadres until recently. Their system is/was highly well regarded and emulated, but within the last decade CCP has evolved/developed beyond the Singaporean methods designed for small fish geopolitics. LKI was the preeminant statesmen that every CCP leader visited/consulted with personally, outside of state-to-state dialogue. I think Trumps America, drama HK in has turned more and more away from representative democracy. Western system in general started losing luster post 2007 GFC. Whatever model PRC will pursue in future, it's not going to look towards "declining west" until west sorts out it's issues.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#159
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with complete disregard on how the stock market might react. I personally regard this as a positive fact, and I'm generally against the policies of the current Chinese authorities. The stock market should not be the be-all and end-all of our modern society.

Does it make sense to have strong principles and not be guided by financial incentives alone? Sure. But would it make more sense to have a solid regulatory framework to start with, as opposed to being loosey goosey for a very long time and then course correcting in a way that evaporates billions in value overnight from domestic and foreign investors? Countries and companies have a lot in common. Consider this analogy…

The notion of designing a stable regulatory regime upfront is a mirage. It's how you get these giant corporations that pay no tax thanks to their double Irishes and have "independent contractors" instead of employees so they can avoid paying their social responsibilities.

The legal/regulatory regime should be reasonable and predictable, but that should mean human judgement rather than blindly following coded rules like a smart contract. If you're a corporation that's large enough to be impacting society, you should expect society to have a say in what you're doing, and that means that as you do new and surprising things, there will be corresponding regulatory changes.

Re: WeChat suspends new user registration for security compliance

#160
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays I think most of educated Chinese believe democracy is not suitable for China. Isn't that exactly 1) what the Communist Party wants them to think, and 2) an idea that they can manipulate the information environment to promote?

I don't see how this is a productive point. "Democracy is best" is 1) what the US government wants you to think, and 2) an idea that they can manipulate the information environment to promote.

Can they? The US government has very limited "hard" control over what information is published, e.g. there are no banned books in the US and it would be impractical for the government to try to impose any such ban, in stark contrast to the PRC.
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